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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

  1. #371
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Read your study again, they cannot say that violence went down everywhere because of guns being available. And they did not look at every single instance. You may recall the Brady bill. Do you know crime went down after the Brady bill? It did. And liberals said, "see the Brady bill proves that limiting guns reduces crime." Back then I had to argue with them that they were making the same mistake you are. It's called a causal relationship error. The fact is crime has been mostly going down for a while. And it is likely for a number of different reasons. But to prove causality, you need more than a came before b so as the cause.

    but, no, it isn't. An inusrance policy that a significant number hurt themself with isn't much of an insurance policy.
    This is not something new, there is a city in GA. that has had a very similar law for quite some time now .

    Kennesaw crime rates are less than half of US averages.

    In 1982 Kennesaw passed this law

    (a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.

    Home burglaries dropped from 65 before the ordinance, down to 26 in 1983, and to 11 in 1984. Another report observed a noticeable reduction in burglary from 1981, the year before the ordinance was passed, to 1999.
    Now I remember your own "logical assumptions" concerning carrying a weapon on college campuses, I would think that there are some logical assumptions to be made in this case as well .

    One thing that can be stated as fact, and cannot be debated, the law that told people that they had to have a gun in their house, did not raise crime rates.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe, but I can still pointout that's a shame they waste it.
    It is. But then again, lots of people major in business.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it isn't. Look at those accidental shootings again. Some insurance policy let me tell ya.
    Accidental deaths due to firearms are below the death rate of gravity. Seriously, if you want to go this route, you need to campaign for shower mats in bathtubs. You know how many people die each year from slipping in the shower? A 5 dollar shower mat prevents that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Accidental deaths due to firearms are below the death rate of gravity. Seriously, if you want to go this route, you need to campaign for shower mats in bathtubs. You know how many people die each year from slipping in the shower? A 5 dollar shower mat prevents that.
    First point, I didn't limit it to deaths. I said accidental shootings. And it really doesn't matter how many deaths, or even accidents happen with anything else. I'm not claiming having a car is an insurance policy against injury.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    First point, I didn't limit it to deaths. I said accidental shootings. And it really doesn't matter how many deaths, or even accidents happen with anything else. I'm not claiming having a car is an insurance policy against injury.
    OK, so what? People like you got all the good fireworks banned too. And it's good that you're not claiming that about cars, because having a car and driving one has the most impact on your life/death probabilities. So it cannot be insurance against injury. Guns don't even come close to that probability. I'm not really going to be concerned about it until it does.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    This is not something new, there is a city in GA. that has had a very similar law for quite some time now .

    Kennesaw crime rates are less than half of US averages.

    In 1982 Kennesaw passed this law



    Now I remember your own "logical assumptions" concerning carrying a weapon on college campuses, I would think that there are some logical assumptions to be made in this case as well .

    One thing that can be stated as fact, and cannot be debated, the law that told people that they had to have a gun in their house, did not raise crime rates.
    No, that would be quite different. You're making a different type of claim to begin with, that one thing is the cause of another. I make no such claim. So, you're claim falls under the causal relationship error and no different than those who give credit to the Brady bill. They are just as wrong in their assumptions as you are. Other factors not mentioned or known may be the factors that are making the difference.

    Nor do I claim having a gun raises crime. I do wish folks would argue what is before them and not strawmen. More guns MIGHT lead to more accidents, but I see no evidence they would lead to more crime.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that would be quite different. You're making a different type of claim to begin with, that one thing is the cause of another. I make no such claim. So, you're claim falls under the causal relationship error and no different than those who give credit to the Brady bill. They are just as wrong in their assumptions as you are. Other factors not mentioned or known may be the factors that are making the difference.

    Nor do I claim having a gun raises crime. I do wish folks would argue what is before them and not strawmen. More guns MIGHT lead to more accidents, but I see no evidence they would lead to more crime.
    more guns might lead to more crime. That's still a true statement.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    OK, so what? People like you got all the good fireworks banned too. And it's good that you're not claiming that about cars, because having a car and driving one has the most impact on your life/death probabilities. So it cannot be insurance against injury. Guns don't even come close to that probability. I'm not really going to be concerned about it until it does.
    I admit fireworks annoy me, and don't go to see them, because if you've seen one, you've seen them all. But I never did anything to limit fireworks.

    And keep in mind, guns are not in everyday use like cars are. This is important. Do you really believe if more people had guns there wouldn't be an increase in accidents?

    So, to recap, guns are not an insurance policy that protects us from injury. We can agree on that, right?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    more guns might lead to more crime. That's still a true statement.
    If you say so, but not my claim, nor my concern. In my decade of working the ambulance, I never picked up someone shot during a crime, but did pick up many accidents. For me, accidents are more the concern.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you say so, but not my claim, nor my concern. In my decade of working the ambulance, I never picked up someone shot during a crime, but did pick up many accidents. For me, accidents are more the concern.


    Firearms (Total)*

    Suicides 16,586
    Homicides 10,801
    Accidents 776

    Source GOA fact sheet.





    Your story seems highly unlikley.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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