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Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

It doesn't really matter who the problem is, the point is that a campus full of alcohol and guns is a tragedy waiting to happen.

When you're banning the wrong behavior, of course it matters who's the problem.

If you view the alcohol (rather than the guns) as being the primary problem and know of a way to prevent college students who want to drink from drinking, let's deal with that first. THEN maybe we can talk about having guns on campus.

If only I had the ability.

The reason I'm opposed to guns on most residential campuses is the same reason that I don't think people should be allowed to bring a gun into a bar or club: the alcohol.

In my state it doesn't matter where you are, you simply are not allowed to be legally intoxicated while in possession of a firearm.

Additionally, we aren't allowed to carry inside a business "who derive at least half their income from the sale of alcohol". This includes bars and liquor stores.

Sidebar:
New years eve I was out with my brother and his now X looking for some adult refreshments. Now, my brother's X didn't know I ever touched a firearm outside of military. I knew that if she did, she would want to see it and play with it and basically get in all kinds of trouble. Anyway, we came to a liquor store and knowing the law preventing me from entering (I always carry) but also wanting to be discreet about it (because of his X) I told him I would wait in the car. He knew why and went and bought what he wanted.

His X is always looking for a way to pick on someone...probably why she's his X now...and tried to make an issue teasing me about staying in the car for that one store. I shrugged it off, not wanting to make an issue out of it, but refused to offer an explanation to her as, again, I wanted to be discrete about carrying.

No sooner did I ask her to drop it when, silly me, having gotten comfortable at my brother's house, took off my sweater, and there was my pistol for all to see; and her silly games began again.

She will not be missed.
 
What would you propose as more constitutional limitations? Or should we be allowed to open-carry anywhere?

Seeing a pistol on someone's belt shouldn't catch your eye any more than a cellphone or molti-tool.
 
Just when you think society has hit the bottom of the barrel, you discover that someone has been working feverishly to dig out a new basement under it.
 
I say if 18yo kids aren't old enough to be trusted as adults with a pistol, then they can't tried as adults in a court of law. They are either 100% adults and are treated and trusted as such, or they are 0% adults and can not be treated or tried as such.

Gotta pick one, can't have both.
 
I'm of the opinion that everyone should be trained in the safe handling and use of weapons. As a mandatory class in high school.

Sex Ed, Drivers Ed, Firearms Ed, Home Ec./Budgeting should all be mandatory.
 
Have you guys been on a college campus recently? Specifically a non-commuter school with a large student population living on campus? Maybe this comes as a shock to some people, but college students like to drink alcohol...a lot. And at that age, they're often relatively new to alcohol and don't know their limits. Do you really want people to have guns in close proximity after they've just consumed 8 beers and are acting belligerent?

Have you been on a college campus? Drinking isn't allowed, or didn't you know?
 
I say if 18yo kids aren't old enough to be trusted as adults with a pistol, then they can't tried as adults in a court of law. They are either 100% adults and are treated and trusted as such, or they are 0% adults and can not be treated or tried as such.

Gotta pick one, can't have both.

Don't forget a 18 years old can enlist in the military service.

And with parental consent you can sign papers at 16,
but can't be sent to boot camp till you're 17.

If a 18 years old can be trusted to go kill and die in war.
Then they should be treated as an adult.
 
I don't know about people drinking while having a CCW, but one things for sure, if I am able to get a CCW, why would I bring my weapon to a party where I know i'm going to consume alcohol? And general practice is, when the gun is not in use, unload and lock both weapon and ammunition separately. If they don't follow such rules, then they are breaking the laws to begin with, at least in California.
 
What are the rules of engagement? If someone else flashes theirs first does that make them the starter of the firefight? Is it illegal to duel? What can't I do with my gun?

Give youself intelligence.

It's stupid to say "is it illegal to duel" and dumb ass **** like that. Of course it's illegal to duel, don't be an idiot. There can be reasonable and intelligent concerns about allowing students the ability to to carry firearms, start there. Don't start into "Oh what are rules of engagement...are duels illegal" blah blah blah. Try to be intelligent.
 
If liquor is not allowed on campus and they choose to drink, **** them, expel them. I have no sympathy.

My University allows liquor and guns on campus. We haven't really had a problem. Fact is, lots of students will not choose to carry a weapon. The most retarded of the bunch (business and communications majors) are too busy driking themselves retarded to carry a gun. It's really not going to make a huge difference on the whole. If you have a CCW, you should be allowed to carry on campus.
 
OK, get back to me when you've done that, then we'll talk about guns. Until then, let's be pragmatic. I think it's better if drunk college kids WEREN'T carrying guns when they decide to get in fights with each other.

Why don't you look at campuses which allow concealed weapons and then tell us how many of those campuses have had drunk students shoot each other on campus with their legally carried concealed weapon?
 
Yep, Broseph Brosephson of Kappa Kappa Kappa is quite the patriot. He can easily fight state oppression with his musket while showing his frat brothers how much beer he can chug at the same time. :roll:

So you're resorting to stereotypes and hyperbole to push a point?
 
What would you propose as more constitutional limitations? Or should we be allowed to open-carry anywhere?

The bad guys are going to carry anyway. Why shouldn't law abiding good guys be able to protect themselves anywhere any time? Open carry, concealed carry, makes no difference to me. I'm not comfortable handling guns myself, but I appreciate the fact that those around me may have a gun.
If some nut decides to go on a rampage when I'm out maybe he'll be shot before doing much damage.
The only thing I feel bad about is, I'm not comfortable enough to protect myself and others with a weapon, and I'm just hoping someone else would.
I'm against gun free zones. They only protect the bad guys.
 
Sex Ed, Drivers Ed, Firearms Ed, Home Ec./Budgeting should all be mandatory.

At Dakota Tech (where there are no dorms an liquor is banned, and ruffly 10-20% of the student body are military), every student has to take the 3-day class and become certified in first aid and CPR. This class is on every curriculum and yes the student pays for it.

A firearms safety class takes 3 days or less. One day of class room, one day at the range, then qualification. A hunters safety card/pistol qualification should likewise become a part of every curriculum.
 
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When you're banning the wrong behavior, of course it matters who's the problem.

The fact is that many campuses have lots of alcohol on them, whether it's allowed or not. And as long as that remains the case, it's better to not have guns nearby.

Jerry said:
In my state it doesn't matter where you are, you simply are not allowed to be legally intoxicated while in possession of a firearm.

Additionally, we aren't allowed to carry inside a business "who derive at least half their income from the sale of alcohol". This includes bars and liquor stores.

Those seem like pretty reasonable laws to me. I'd add many college campuses to that list though for the same reason...they're full of drunk people. It's not a matter of trying to stamp out gun ownership everywhere, it's just a matter of preventing an easily-foreseeable situation from becoming deadly.

American said:
Have you been on a college campus? Drinking isn't allowed, or didn't you know?

Depends where you go to school. I've attended four universities and none of them banned drinking. And even if they would have, I suspect that the ban wouldn't have had much of an effect on actual student behavior.
 
I'm conflicted on this one. Young people don't always show the best judgment.

I worry about people who have no training in gun safety getting hurt of hurting someone else unintentionally.

I have the same concerns about adults.

If they know what they are doing, No problem.

I have no problem with kids on campus owning guns, as long as they take a safety course, and get a concealed carry license.
 
The fact is that many campuses have lots of alcohol on them, whether it's allowed or not. And as long as that remains the case, it's better to not have guns nearby.



Those seem like pretty reasonable laws to me. I'd add many college campuses to that list though for the same reason...they're full of drunk people. It's not a matter of trying to stamp out gun ownership everywhere, it's just a matter of preventing an easily-foreseeable situation from becoming deadly.



Depends where you go to school. I've attended four universities and none of them banned drinking. And even if they would have, I suspect that the ban wouldn't have had much of an effect on actual student behavior.

Just like gun free zones have very little effect on a criminal's behavior.
 
Just like gun free zones have very little effect on a criminal's behavior.

Except I'm not talking about people who are normally considered "criminals," who carry guns with the deliberate intent to commit crimes. I'm talking about drunken frat morons who get into fights, and it's probably better if they didn't have a gun onhand at the time.
 
Except I'm not talking about people who are normally considered "criminals," who carry guns with the deliberate intent to commit crimes. I'm talking about drunken frat morons who get into fights, and it's probably better if they didn't have a gun onhand at the time.

So you make assumptions, stereotypes, and hyperbole to make an argument against allowing guns on campus. Can you make an argument against it using sound logic, numbers, and rational thought? There are campuses that allows guns to be carried on campus. THere are campuses which allow alcohol on campus. And there are campuses that do both. How about some stats instead of your assumptions? You got any of that? Or do you still have nothing?
 
So you make assumptions, stereotypes, and hyperbole to make an argument against allowing guns on campus.

YOU are the one who is making vicious attacks against anyone who prefers a pragmatic approach instead of a demagogue approach. :roll:

Ikari said:
Can you make an argument against it using sound logic, numbers, and rational thought? There are campuses that allows guns to be carried on campus. THere are campuses which allow alcohol on campus. And there are campuses that do both. How about some stats instead of your assumptions? You got any of that? Or do you still have nothing?

I'm not sure any studies have ever examined the relationship. Nothing comes up on Google anyway. I really don't know what exactly you're PMSing about...which of my points do you disagree with? Are you disputing that drunk people with guns are a potential threat to public safety? If not, take your medicine and calm down.
 
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YOU are the one who is making vicious attacks against anyone who prefers a pragmatic approach instead of a demagogue approach. :roll:

Am I? So I'm talking about "frat" boys and this or that? I'm making assumptions to prevent the exercise of a right with no data to back up my claim? Really? That's what you're going with here? Man, you need better excuses for your piss poor arguments. All I wanted was data to back up your ASSUMPTION and SUPPOSITION. That's it. Can you back it up with anything other than hearsay?

I'm not sure any studies have ever examined the relationship. Nothing comes up on Google anyway. I really don't know what exactly you're PMSing about...which of my points do you disagree with? Are you disputing that drunk people with guns are a potential threat to public safety? If not, take your medicine and calm down.

No, I'm asking of the Universities which allow guns on campus, how much of an issue has it really been. I'm asking you to be quantitative about your analysis, get some data, and make a decision made from actual measurement. Not supposition and assumption like you've been doing. Do you have anything which backs up your claims that allowing guns on campus will inherently lead to drunken outbursts of gun fire? Or are you just making it all up? That's it. No "PMSing" or any other of your deflects cause you can't answer the question. Do you have ANYTHING to back up your claims?
 
The universities should be allowed to set their own policies.
 
The fact is that many campuses have lots of alcohol on them, whether it's allowed or not. And as long as that remains the case, it's better to not have guns nearby.

The kind of person who gets a CCW is not the kind of person who gets in a drunken stupor at frat parties. These are 2 different types of personalities; just like the gay who joins the military is not the kind of person who marches in the nude or cross-dressed in gay-pride parades.

It is precisely because rowdy individuals bring the irresponsible consumption of liquor to the campus life that responsible individuals need to be able to properly defend themselves.

It is precisely because every once in a while there is some insane lunatic who decides he wants to shoot up the school that the student body need to be permitted to train and carry the ability to defend themselves.

And if you thing terrorists aren't targeting our middle schools, think again.

Those seem like pretty reasonable laws to me. I'd add many college campuses to that list though for the same reason...they're full of drunk people. It's not a matter of trying to stamp out gun ownership everywhere, it's just a matter of preventing an easily-foreseeable situation from becoming deadly.

Liquor stores aren't full of drunk people...at least not here...but I don't mind to much because the grocery store has better liquor prices anyway. You're typical CCW holder will even unload and secure their weapon before drinking at home. I speak from personal experience there.

There was a push in SD to allow CCW holders to carry into bars and liquor stores, with the understanding that you still are not allowed to be legally intoxicated while carrying regardless of where you are. The bill failed as it didn't have enough support, but rumor has it it will be brought back up in the next year or two.
 
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DiAnna.....you have to be 21 to perches a pistol. That's federal law.

I know you have to be 21 to purchase a pistol in Texas. But do you have to be 21 to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon? Because lots of people under the age of 21 have access to pistols that were legally purchased by others.

I have no problem with adults on campus who have passed the proper procedures to carry concealed weapons take their guns on campus. I'm simply wondering what kind of procedures are in place to assure that those carrying such weapons know how to properly use them. Yes, 18 year olds are "adults". Kinda. :)
 
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