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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

  1. #261
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Self defense. It doesn't have to be a gun fight either. It could be assault or theft as well. Sexual assualts are not unknown on campuses across America. Another more basic reason is that it's a right, which means you have a right to keep and bear arms. Exercising a right is the perogative of the individual, there is worth in the exercise of rights. If you wish to infringe upon that, it's up to you to prove your case beyond assumption, supposition, and feelings.
    Any evidence a gun would prevent those? As I understand most of these, they are not done violently. What I mean is the assults are usually more a date gone bad, too much drinking (those poor choices young adults make), taking something not yours, buit not armed robbery.

    I see no evidence anyone needs a gun for protection. This is an area you could be seen making the affirmative claims, meaning the burden is yours.

    Your rights are not being infringed upon. The right is not absolute, anywhere.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Any evidence a gun would prevent those? As I understand most of these, they are not done violently. What I mean is the assults are usually more a date gone bad, too much drinking (those poor choices young adults make), taking something not yours, buit not armed robbery.

    I see no evidence anyone needs a gun for protection. This is an area you could be seen making the affirmative claims, meaning the burden is yours.

    Your rights are not being infringed upon. The right is not absolute, anywhere.
    Any evidence that it wouldn't? The fact of the matter is, people can choose to carry weapons or not. It's really up to them. However, given that there is still some amount of violent crime on campus; guns can be used by people to defend themselves from such attack. It's one reason why guns were made in the first place. My rights ARE being infringed upon. The one natural restriction to our rights is that we may not infringe upon the rights of others in the process. Any restriction outside of that IS an infringment. You want to infringe upon my rights without reason, without proof, without due process of law. That is what you really call for.

    Carrying a gun on campus does not infringe upon the rights of others, it does not put others at measureably higher risk. That's that. Yet you still want to go beyond that because you think adults out there can't handle their rights and thus you think yourself grand puba of what rights people can use, when they can use them, and at what age they can be "trusted" with them. But adults are adults and legally we all have the same set of rights. It doesn't matter if you think they can't handle it, I've shown you one State in which they can. So obviously your stereotype doesn't hold up too well to reality. Regardless, when you want to use government force against the rights and liberties of the individual, to do so without reason, without proof, without the courts is nothing short of tyranny. You cannot carte blanch start restricting rights because you feel that other adults are not mature enough to handle their rights. Get over yourself, you ain't god.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Troubadour View Post
    Texas has some of the strangest and most irrational political priorities in America. This is a state faced with the largest budget deficit in the country ($27 billion) because it insists on such low tax rates, but rather than raising taxes on the state's wealthy - perish the thought! - they chose to eviscerate spending on education, Medicaid, and prisons. That isn't directly germane to this thread, but it certainly explains a lot about a state that considers it a priority to introduce guns on college campuses. That state has gotten by so far on the luck of fools, making one insane decision after another, but I don't see much of a future for Texas. It's going to become one great big Mad Max theme park.
    Allowing guns on campus doesn't cost the state anything

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Allowing guns on campus doesn't cost the state anything
    Other than its rapidly-diminishing supply of credibility.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Troubadour View Post
    Other than its rapidly-diminishing supply of credibility.
    If you ever discover a fact-based argument you would like to offer, please do so.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Any evidence that it wouldn't? The fact of the matter is, people can choose to carry weapons or not. It's really up to them. However, given that there is still some amount of violent crime on campus; guns can be used by people to defend themselves from such attack. It's one reason why guns were made in the first place. My rights ARE being infringed upon. The one natural restriction to our rights is that we may not infringe upon the rights of others in the process. Any restriction outside of that IS an infringment. You want to infringe upon my rights without reason, without proof, without due process of law. That is what you really call for.

    Carrying a gun on campus does not infringe upon the rights of others, it does not put others at measureably higher risk. That's that. Yet you still want to go beyond that because you think adults out there can't handle their rights and thus you think yourself grand puba of what rights people can use, when they can use them, and at what age they can be "trusted" with them. But adults are adults and legally we all have the same set of rights. It doesn't matter if you think they can't handle it, I've shown you one State in which they can. So obviously your stereotype doesn't hold up too well to reality. Regardless, when you want to use government force against the rights and liberties of the individual, to do so without reason, without proof, without the courts is nothing short of tyranny. You cannot carte blanch start restricting rights because you feel that other adults are not mature enough to handle their rights. Get over yourself, you ain't god.
    With out due process? Aren't the laws on the books part of the legal process?

    It's clear young adults rountinely do not responsibily handle their rights. The auto industy knows this well, which is why they charge young adults more. And that is evidence to doubt young adults should be walking around schools with guns.

    Schools are not that dangerous. If someone said no more guns for anyone. I woud join your objection. If someone said you can't take a gun hunting. I would object. If someone tried to take guns away from police or anyone doing anything risky and dangerous, that such a toolwould be needed, I would again join your objection. But to think you need a gun on a colllege campus is laughable, and potentially risky. It is one thing to walk through the valley of the shadow of death and show no fear, but to be unable to cross a college campus with a gun? That's just silly. One isn't needed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    I've shown evidence. Twice. It was ignored both times.



    Basically, the argument that guns make people safer is NOT shown by this data. The argument that being restrictive about them isn't either.
    so given its a draw-freedom trumps any other argument

    funny how so few cops go unarmed though

    wonder if they know something you don't



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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Troubadour View Post
    Other than its rapidly-diminishing supply of credibility.
    wow that is as stupid a response as it is not relevant. how would that cause less credibility?



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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    With out due process? Aren't the laws on the books part of the legal process?
    You cannot make laws which strip away rights. For instance, you cannot claim that the open practice of Christianity is illegal and make a law against it. It's not due process, you can't say "well it's a law, so that's due process". The only just way to strip one of their ability to exercise their rights is through the court system, by being brought before a judge and jury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's clear young adults rountinely do not responsibily handle their rights. The auto industy knows this well, which is why they charge young adults more. And that is evidence to doubt young adults should be walking around schools with guns.
    Evidence to doubt, but you need beyond a reasonable doubt to strip and adult of their ability to exercise their rights. As I have said, what you claim is not the case in reality. What you claim is just what you thought up in your mind taking apparently standard Animal House stereotypes and applying it to everyone. With no thought about who would or wouldn't carry a gun even if it were allowed, the probabilities at stake, and the ability of people who would choose to carry a gun to do so rationally and maturely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Schools are not that dangerous. If someone said no more guns for anyone. I woud join your objection. If someone said you can't take a gun hunting. I would object. If someone tried to take guns away from police or anyone doing anything risky and dangerous, that such a toolwould be needed, I would again join your objection. But to think you need a gun on a colllege campus is laughable, and potentially risky. It is one thing to walk through the valley of the shadow of death and show no fear, but to be unable to cross a college campus with a gun? That's just silly. One isn't needed.
    Some schools can be very dangerous. Hell, even at my school which is in a relatively safe portion of the US, there are quite a number of sexual assaults and robberies and such. An adult has the right to defend themselves against these acts and to the tools by which he can do so. Guns are one form of tool. You want to strip away the rights of adults with no real proof. It's all "one isn't needed" "schools are not that dangerous" blah blah blah. It's all crap because all of that are ASSUMPTIONS and SUPPOSITIONS on YOUR part. You still have yet to PROVE anything. Any time now, we're waiting.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's clear young adults rountinely do not responsibily handle their rights. The auto industy knows this well, which is why they charge young adults more. And that is evidence to doubt young adults should be walking around schools with guns.
    So you would agree, then, that people over a certain age should be allowed to carry on campus, as your concern for 'young adult immaturity' would no longer be an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But to think you need a gun on a colllege campus is laughable, and potentially risky. It is one thing to walk through the valley of the shadow of death and show no fear, but to be unable to cross a college campus with a gun? That's just silly. One isn't needed.
    You've already expressed this many times, and I appreciate your opinion, but on what data to base your position? Do you have real examples of schools which allow firearms and have an increased crime rate? Have you reviewed the history of public education before firearms were banned and noted a drop in gun-related crime with the passing of a ban?


    ***
    As a sidebar, I'm a person who frequently packs things I don't obviously need so that I am prepared for the rare occurrence. For example;
    • I keep a full set (5) of uniform patches in the left arm pocket of my ACUs. I've only had to use the spare flag, and then only once, but u never know.
    • I keep my cell-phone charger in my right calf pocket even-though I know I'll be able to go back to my room and charge it long before the battery runs out.
    • I have a phone card in my wallet with important phone numbers taped to it even-though I have a cell.
    • I have a bag of salt, cat litter, anti-freeze, quart of oil, snow shovel, liter of water and a sleeping bag in the trunk of my car, in addition to the spare tire and cables.


    So, to me, carrying a gun to class is like carrying my molti-tool to class, which I do. I don't expect to have to fix anything in class, but I'm not focused only on my class. These are things I need in my life regardless of where I am or what I'm doing, because my circumstances change as the day goes by. Lacking a crystal ball, I don't know what life is going to toss at me, so I try to prepare and be ready to improvise, adapt and overcome.

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