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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by LimeLight View Post
    So you teaching at a school and a police chief's opinion prove your argument and that self-defense doesn't justify the protection of a students constitutional right?
    ?????

    Drugs are bad OK.

    The RIGHT isn't free of restrictions. There is little going on at any school that would require you need a gun for protection. And police have offered reasons why it would be a bad idea in a situation like VT.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    ?????

    Drugs are bad OK.

    The RIGHT isn't free of restrictions. There is little going on at any school that would require you need a gun for protection. And police have offered reasons why it would be a bad idea in a situation like VT.
    That's your opinion. That doesn't justify infringing on the right to keep and bear arms.
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Texas has some of the strangest and most irrational political priorities in America. This is a state faced with the largest budget deficit in the country ($27 billion) because it insists on such low tax rates, but rather than raising taxes on the state's wealthy - perish the thought! - they chose to eviscerate spending on education, Medicaid, and prisons. That isn't directly germane to this thread, but it certainly explains a lot about a state that considers it a priority to introduce guns on college campuses. That state has gotten by so far on the luck of fools, making one insane decision after another, but I don't see much of a future for Texas. It's going to become one great big Mad Max theme park.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    By all means, tell me the purpose. Where will you use the tool on campus.
    Self defense. It doesn't have to be a gun fight either. It could be assault or theft as well. Sexual assualts are not unknown on campuses across America. Another more basic reason is that it's a right, which means you have a right to keep and bear arms. Exercising a right is the perogative of the individual, there is worth in the exercise of rights. If you wish to infringe upon that, it's up to you to prove your case beyond assumption, supposition, and feelings.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    ?????

    Drugs are bad OK.

    The RIGHT isn't free of restrictions. There is little going on at any school that would require you need a gun for protection. And police have offered reasons why it would be a bad idea in a situation like VT.
    The one restriction on rights is that you may not infringe upon the rights of others. Carrying a gun on campus does not innately infringe upon the rights of others. And appeal to authority is not necessarily the most logical of fallicies to make in this case. Of course the police don't want people to be armed. But when you need the police the most, they're 10 minutes away.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The one restriction on rights is that you may not infringe upon the rights of others. Carrying a gun on campus does not innately infringe upon the rights of others. And appeal to authority is not necessarily the most logical of fallicies to make in this case. Of course the police don't want people to be armed. But when you need the police the most, they're 10 minutes away.
    Ex-cop agrees...
    ... at least 10 minutes away, like at VA tech and Columbine...

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I know it can be fun to say things like that, but if you can ever demonstrate how that might actually be fact, please let us know.
    Well, let's say I go out, buy a gun and shoot someone.

    Let's even go further, say this person is my spouse. I fake a break-in, and claim it happened during a home-invasion. Now I must ask myself "what do I do with the gun?" it's the most damning piece of evidence. So, I think back. There is no record kept of me buying the gun. I don't have a license for it, actually, there's nothing connecting me with this gun except for fingerprints, which I can wipe away and then I may as well just drop the gun on the floor. I could even say that I hit the person who did it and they dropped the gun.

    So, police investigate. They have the murder weapon, legally attained with ease, but absolutely no way of knowing who it belonged to.

    On the gun-running thing, have a dozen people go around to different firearm stores and buy up a bunch of guns. Those guns have no connection to anyone, just toss 'em in the back of my van, set up a connection that needs a bulk number of untraceable firearms sold to them, and BAM!
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Deeper than a constitutional one?
    Essentially, yes. Any law curtailing a fundamental right is subject to strict judicial scrutiny. That means a legally compelling basis must be given to deny the right. Not a reasonable basis, or a good basis, but a compelling one. And moreover, there has to be no less intrusive alternative available.

    A ban on guns in a college campus is not narrowly tailored to support the compelling government purpose of keeping college students safe. They are adults. I could see the argument if it was a high school, but it is not. There are other ways to accomplish the purpose of protecting the students, like a gun registration or something less intrusive than an out and out ban.

    It doesn't matter if you think that a gun ban is a good idea, or even the safest idea. It is a fundamental right, so the standard by which you judge infringement is much higher.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Well, let's say I go out, buy a gun and shoot someone.

    Let's even go further, say this person is my spouse. I fake a break-in, and claim it happened during a home-invasion. Now I must ask myself "what do I do with the gun?" it's the most damning piece of evidence. So, I think back. There is no record kept of me buying the gun. I don't have a license for it, actually, there's nothing connecting me with this gun except for fingerprints, which I can wipe away and then I may as well just drop the gun on the floor. I could even say that I hit the person who did it and they dropped the gun.

    So, police investigate. They have the murder weapon, legally attained with ease, but absolutely no way of knowing who it belonged to.

    On the gun-running thing, have a dozen people go around to different firearm stores and buy up a bunch of guns. Those guns have no connection to anyone, just toss 'em in the back of my van, set up a connection that needs a bulk number of untraceable firearms sold to them, and BAM!
    The first thing the police will do is run your name with NCIS. They will find that a local dealer ran your name for the perches of a firearm.

    If that's not enough to get a warrant for any receipts of firearms sold to you from that dealer, the police will give the weapon's serial # to it's manufacturer, who then tells them which licensed dealer it was sold to. The police go to that dealer with a warrant for the receipts for the sale, and find your signature and copy of your driver's license in the documentation of the firearm's sale.

    This information exists whether the costumer has a CCW or not. The only thing a CCW does for the costumer while in the store is saving the costumer from a 3 day waiting period; a CCW holder can walk out the door with it.

    ***
    SD law prevents anyone, especially the state, from keeping a list of who buys what, but a business still keeps copies of their own transactions.

    Your fantasy does not exist.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-28-11 at 10:17 PM.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The one restriction on rights is that you may not infringe upon the rights of others. Carrying a gun on campus does not innately infringe upon the rights of others. And appeal to authority is not necessarily the most logical of fallicies to make in this case. Of course the police don't want people to be armed. But when you need the police the most, they're 10 minutes away.
    Where do you think I'm appealing to authority? I merely cited the ruling which said they did not strike down any cun control restrictions outside of those specific to the case, meaning all the other regulations stand until they don't. This is just the facts of the situation. So far we can have restrictions, including restrictions to place.

    Just for information purposes:

    Description of Appeal to Authority
    An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:


    Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
    Person A makes claim C about subject S.
    Therefore, C is true.
    This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.

    This sort of reasoning is fallacious when the person in question is not an expert. In such cases the reasoning is flawed because the fact that an unqualified person makes a claim does not provide any justification for the claim. The claim could be true, but the fact that an unqualified person made the claim does not provide any rational reason to accept the claim as true.

    Fallacy: Appeal to Authority

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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