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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think that is exactly what the ruling means. And it also has changed more than a few times over the decades.
    Actually, Heller and McDonald are the first SCOTUS rulings on the meaning of the second amendment ever. So it hasn't really changed at all, it's more like the quantum observer effect, where the Second Amendment existed in a suspended state as both a collective right and an individual one until the SCOTUS finally decided.

    But you're right that we still have a few years before we find out exactly what they mean in practice. Just because the Supreme Court decided something does not mean they will apply it consistently. In fact, based on the past behavior of Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Scalia, we should fully expect them not to be self-consistent.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Because the Constitution isn't infallible.
    Geez, who let this pinko out of his dacha?

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Actually, Heller and McDonald are the first SCOTUS rulings on the meaning of the second amendment ever. So it hasn't really changed at all, it's more like the quantum observer effect, where the Second Amendment existed in a suspended state as both a collective right and an individual one until the SCOTUS finally decided.

    But you're right that we still have a few years before we find out exactly what they mean in practice. Just because the Supreme Court decided something does not mean they will apply it consistently. In fact, based on the past behavior of Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Scalia, we should fully expect them not to be self-consistent.
    More that some may read what was done differently than others do. That's the trouble with laws and language, everyone THINKS they know exactly what it says, and what the rulings really were. Often many get it wrong.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    If I drink in protest to the law is that not free speech?
    If you argued that in court, I'd support it

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Let me add this:

    The 5 to 4 decision does not strike down any gun-control laws, nor does it elaborate on what kind of laws would offend the Constitution. One justice predicted that an "avalanche" of lawsuits would be filed across the country asking federal judges to define the boundaries of gun ownership and government regulation.

    (snip)

    The decision extended the court's 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller that "the Second Amendment protects a personal right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes, most notably for self-defense within the home."

    Supreme Court affirms fundamental right to bear arms

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Let me add this:

    The 5 to 4 decision does not strike down any gun-control laws, nor does it elaborate on what kind of laws would offend the Constitution. One justice predicted that an "avalanche" of lawsuits would be filed across the country asking federal judges to define the boundaries of gun ownership and government regulation.

    (snip)

    The decision extended the court's 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller that "the Second Amendment protects a personal right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes, most notably for self-defense within the home."

    Supreme Court affirms fundamental right to bear arms
    You act like that's not a big deal. The second amendment is now a fundamental right, like freedom of speech or religion. Think about the implications of that. You can't even deny a convict in prison his fundamental right to practice his religion, without a compelling reason.

    So you have to give me a compelling reason now to deny me my guns in a public place. Not just a good reason. A legally compelling one. Like it or not, Heller was huge. I don't understand why you're downplaying it.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You act like that's not a big deal. The second amendment is now a fundamental right, like freedom of speech or religion. Think about the implications of that. You can't even deny a convict in prison his fundamental right to practice his religion, without a compelling reason.

    So you have to give me a compelling reason now to deny me my guns in a public place. Not just a good reason. A legally compelling one. Like it or not, Heller was huge. I don't understand why you're downplaying it.
    I don't think it is a major deal, but part of the continued controvesy with the admendment. As long as I can remember both sides have taken rulings to be major and definitavie, but in the end, they weren't. The next ruling will likely back this one up a bit.

    And I'm telling you, believe it or not, it will only take one accident in a school to push these rights back. Just one.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think it is a major deal, but part of the continued controvesy with the admendment. As long as I can remember both sides have taken rulings to be major and definitavie, but in the end, they weren't. The next ruling will likely back this one up a bit.
    You might be right about that next ruling. Hopefully we will have a new court roster with at least one or two left leaning (or, God forbid, non-partisan) Justices by then. Scalia and Thomas are about ready to retire, I should say, but something tells me they are much too stubborn to do so while Obama is in office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And I'm telling you, believe it or not, it will only take one accident in a school to push these rights back. Just one.
    I think you underestimate the gun culture in this country.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You might be right about that next ruling. Hopefully we will have a new court roster with at least one or two left leaning (or, God forbid, non-partisan) Justices by then. Scalia and Thomas are about ready to retire, I should say, but something tells me they are much too stubborn to do so while Obama is in office.



    I think you underestimate the gun culture in this country.
    No. I don't think I do. While we will never ban guns in this country (nor would I advocate that we do), Mothers can rally real well. It will only take one accident. College administrators know this, which in part is why most are opposed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. I don't think I do. While we will never ban guns in this country (nor would I advocate that we do), Mothers can rally real well. It will only take one accident. College administrators know this, which in part is why most are opposed.
    But that's just it. Gun accidents happen all the time, and they haven't put a halt to the advancement of gun rights yet. You may not realize it, but mothers are part of the gun culture as well. It is a pervasive part of the USA.

    Gun accidents and gun violence are a tremendous public health concern, yet somehow they don't seem to hinder the gun culture. Your theory that it will "only take one" to undo gun rights just doesn't hold up.

    When it comes to something as big as Heller, there is no going back. As big a ruling as Heller was it would take an utter sea change in public opinion to undo it.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 02-28-11 at 12:52 PM.

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