• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

Read above. I actually have. And risky behavior that is increased increases risk. And we have establish a certain amount of risk to having a gun. There are accidents with guns.

There are accidents with guns. The injury and fatality rate of which is lower than gravity. If you can't beat gravity, I don't see why I should be concerned. You have no numbers, you have nothing. You keep reposting opinions and trying to claim it is somehow proper evidence. But it's all just opinions in the end. You're the one arguing that this is proper restriction of a right based on unnecessary risks. The only thing I've ever done in this thread has been to ask you to quantify the risks. And you can't. You absolutely refuse. You will not even look up which Universities allow guns on campus and their relative amount of gun crimes by students on campus. If you can't even do that, you cannot make a proper argument on the legitimacy of this infringement.
 
:roll: :coffeepap
You support blatant infringements on the 2nd amendment,therefore you are anti-2nd amendment.

Check you state and federal laws, there are restrictions, and even restrictions as to where you can carry, and have been for as long as either of us have been alive.

What restrictions do you support? Registrations,permits/licenses, waiting periods and etc?





I disagree on tow counts: 1) it does not violate the 2nd amendment, and

Infringements violate the 2nd amendment. The second amendment specifically says that there shall not be any infringements. If you have to ask the government for permission to exercise your 2nd amendment rights then it is indeed a infringement despite what you anti-2nd amendment loons say.

2) there is no need for the risk.

What risk? By your logic all the rapes and assaults do not warrant people being armed because of numbers. So how are you going to say that ADULTS going to college are a risk? Again the risk is not great enough to warrant having restrictions on the 2nd amendment.


Side steps the point, rape isn't happening in the classroom, and no, not all assults require a gun, which is why we need more information as to what we're talking about.
Violent crime does occur on college campuses and in order to get to or leave those college classes you have to go through the college compasses.
 
You support blatant infringements on the 2nd amendment,therefore you are anti-2nd amendment.

I know this is hard for you James, but disagreement doesn't equal blatant anything. ;)


What restrictions do you support? Registrations,permits/licenses, waiting periods and etc?

Most those seem reasonable.





Infringements violate the 2nd amendment. The second amendment specifically says that there shall not be any infringements. If you have to ask the government for permission to exercise your 2nd amendment rights then it is indeed a infringement despite what you anti-2nd amendment loons say.

Actually, I've allowed you to use that word, but it is actually the wrong word. Think regulations. The things you name are not really infringments.


What risk? By your logic all the rapes and assaults do not warrant people being armed because of numbers. So how are you going to say that ADULTS going to college are a risk? Again the risk is not great enough to warrant having restrictions on the 2nd amendment.

You make a lot of leaps James. I'm not sure being armed prevents rape. You have to assume it happens a certain way, when it may well be possible to rape someone who carrys.

But, you're making a lot of leaps, including with my position and actual argument.

Violent crime does occur on college campuses and in order to get to or leave those college classes you have to go through the college compasses.

In the dorms, at parties, rarely in class or at campus activities. Colleges are quite a bit safer than the general most places.
 
There are accidents with guns. The injury and fatality rate of which is lower than gravity. If you can't beat gravity, I don't see why I should be concerned. You have no numbers, you have nothing. You keep reposting opinions and trying to claim it is somehow proper evidence. But it's all just opinions in the end. You're the one arguing that this is proper restriction of a right based on unnecessary risks. The only thing I've ever done in this thread has been to ask you to quantify the risks. And you can't. You absolutely refuse. You will not even look up which Universities allow guns on campus and their relative amount of gun crimes by students on campus. If you can't even do that, you cannot make a proper argument on the legitimacy of this infringement.

Again, you miss the point and leap to the obvious. gravity is everywhere. Guns are not. Gravity can't be avoided esily. Guns can be. Apples to tree frogs is not a good comparison, and I'm not comparing anything. Guns on their own present a greater risk when there are more of them than when there are less. Do you really dispute that?
 
I know this is hard for you James, but disagreement doesn't equal blatant anything. ;)




Most those seem reasonable.

Then you are lying your ass off when you say you are pro-2nd amendment. You are about as pro-2nd amendment as I am pro-abortion.



Actually, I've allowed you to use that word, but it is actually the wrong word. Think regulations. The things you name are not really infringments.
Those things are infringements because they are pro-conditions.They amount to asking the government permission to exercise a right that says the government can on infringe on. If you have to ask the government permission then it is an infringement and actually a privilege.

You make a lot of leaps James. I'm not sure being armed prevents rape. You have to assume it happens a certain way, when it may well be possible to rape someone who carrys.

But, you're making a lot of leaps, including with my position and actual argument.

You are making the leap that it would be more dangerous to let adults be armed.

In the dorms, at parties, rarely in class or at campus activities.


Campus is where those crimes occur. In order to get to parties, dorms, classes and etc you have to move on the campuses.

Colleges are quite a bit safer than the general most places.
Doesn't mean that adults should be banned form exercising their 2nd amendment rights.
 
Then you are lying your ass off when you say you are pro-2nd amendment. You are about as pro-2nd amendment as I am pro-abortion.

Again, you absoluteism is what is beyond the pale. The second amendment does not prohit those things.


Those things are infringements because they are pro-conditions.They amount to asking the government permission to exercise a right that says the government can on infringe on. If you have to ask the government permission then it is an infringement and actually a privilege.

All allowed by the second amendment, as courts have ruled repeatedly.

You are making the leap that it would be more dangerous to let adults be armed.

In the dorms, at parties, rarely in class or at campus activities.


Campus is where those crimes occur. In order to get to parties, dorms, classes and etc you have to move on the campuses.

No leap on my part, we have the accident satisitics. We have the evidence of the maturity level of the population and how they handle other adult responsibilities. And we know that with any risky endeavor, the more there is of it, the more risk there is. And we know right now, crime is low and less on campus than off campus.

No leap on my part James. ;)

Doesn't mean that adults should be banned form exercising their 2nd amendment rights.

James, it doesn't violate their second amendment rights. Not in any way. Restrictions of where and when are not forbidden by the second amendment.
 
Again, you absoluteism is what is beyond the pale. The second amendment does not prohit those things.

The 2nd amendment prohibits infringements. Waiting periods, licenses/permits and etc are infringements. You are a liar when you say you are pro-2nd amendment.

All allowed by the second amendment,

Those things violate the 2nd amendment and 5th amendment

as courts have ruled repeatedly.

What SC cases state that waiting periods, licenses/permits do not violate the 2nd amendment?


In Haynes v. United States declared that a convicted felon registering his firearm because it would violate his 5th amendment right to not incriminate himself.

No leap on my part, we have the accident satisitics.

Out of the 270 million firearms in the country what is the percentage that resulted in accidents?
We have the evidence of the maturity level of the population and how they handle other adult responsibilities. And we know that with any risky endeavor, the more there is of it, the more risk there is. And we know right now, crime is low and less on campus than off campus.

SO you are against legalizing drugs?



James, it doesn't violate their second amendment rights. Not in any way. Restrictions of where and when are not forbidden by the second amendment.

What part of "shall not infringe" do you fail to understand?
 
The 2nd amendment prohibits infringements. Waiting periods, licenses/permits and etc are infringements. You are a liar when you say you are pro-2nd amendment.

James, your personal definition of an infringment is not equal to a legal one. These things have been before the courts and the courts have allowed these regulations. It does not infringe on the right to bear arms.


Those things violate the 2nd amendment and 5th amendment

I and apparently the courts disagree. Now what? ;)

What SC cases state that waiting periods, licenses/permits do not violate the 2nd amendment?

This is largely part of the Brady bill, right? So:

However, the overall Brady statute was upheld and state and local law enforcement officials remained free to conduct background checks if they so chose. The vast majority continued to do so[17]. This issue later became moot when NICS came online in 1998 and the waiting period requirement sunsetted.

Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



In Haynes v. United States declared that a convicted felon registering his firearm because it would violate his 5th amendment right to not incriminate himself.

You thinkthat was the end of it?

As with many other 5th amendment cases, felons and others prohibited from possessing firearms could not be compelled to incriminate themselves through registration.[1][2] The National Firearm Act was amended after Haynes and the new registration provision was upheld in United States v. Freed, 401 U.S. 601 (1971).[3]

Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Out of the 270 million firearms in the country what is the percentage that resulted in accidents?

It doesn't matter. They happen. And the more of anything that happens increases the odds. (I gave the numbers earlier if you're really interested)

SO you are against legalizing drugs?

Whether I am or not, doesn't mean I would accept that the risk would increase. It would increase.




What part of "shall not infringe" do you fail to understand?

Likely the same part of regulate you don't get. let's try not to be too silly. Again, there is nothing new in these regulations and they have been with us for a long time, and not only have they not been struck down, but upheld.
 
James, your personal definition of an infringment is not equal to a legal one. These things have been before the courts and the courts have allowed these regulations. It does not infringe on the right to bear arms.

It may interest you to know that it is illegal in my state, SD, for the government or any vendor to register or otherwise keep any list of who owns what firearm, precisely because doing so is an infringement.
 
Haven't I? We see the stats that people have accidents with guns. They do accidently shoot them selves and others. Logically, any time you increase the number of risky rehaviors and tools, you increase the risk. More cars on the road increases the risk of accident. And more guns on campus increases the risk of an accidental shooting. This is not all that debatable.





Here is your problem Boo, you don't trust yourself and you are projecting that on others. As shown to you accidents with guns are very rare in comparison, you retort about the kids you are in charge of are simple minded drug addicted thugs and thats why guns should not be allowed on campus. You are unwilling to also take the responsibility for thier safety, but you lack your own confidence in your ability to control yourself that you think others are as unstable as you. You want to keep guns out of the wrong hands, and you think you have these wrong hands, therefore so do we.

So please boo, stop projecting your lack of ability of self control while armed on everyone else.
 
Here is your problem Boo, you don't trust yourself and you are projecting that on others. As shown to you accidents with guns are very rare in comparison, you retort about the kids you are in charge of are simple minded drug addicted thugs and thats why guns should not be allowed on campus. You are unwilling to also take the responsibility for thier safety, but you lack your own confidence in your ability to control yourself that you think others are as unstable as you. You want to keep guns out of the wrong hands, and you think you have these wrong hands, therefore so do we.

So please boo, stop projecting your lack of ability of self control while armed on everyone else.

No, the comparison doesn't matter. I don't claim they are more or less, so the comparison has no meaning to any point I'm making. None.

Nor do I make that claim about students either. I merely point out their brains are not fully developed until their late 20's and that they are more likley to be less responsible and we have plenty of statisitics to back that up. Don't believe me, talk to your auto insurance provider.

And not allowing guns is taking responsibility. It would be not taking responsibility to allow guns. You simply convince yourself that some stupid illogical question equals sound reasoning. It doesn't. I can't begin to provide a safe environment if people are allowed to bring weapons.

So, your silliness aside, got anything of value to offer? :coffeepap
 
Very rarely, a woman will die of complications of childbirth. Therefore, pregnancy must be banned.

There is good reason to risk pregnancy. No good reason to risk having a gun in the classroom. Sorry, you're still missing the point.
 
No, the comparison doesn't matter. I don't claim they are more or less, so the comparison has no meaning to any point I'm making. None.

Nor do I make that claim about students either. I merely point out their brains are not fully developed until their late 20's and that they are more likley to be less responsible and we have plenty of statisitics to back that up. Don't believe me, talk to your auto insurance provider.

And not allowing guns is taking responsibility. It would be not taking responsibility to allow guns. You simply convince yourself that some stupid illogical question equals sound reasoning. It doesn't. I can't begin to provide a safe environment if people are allowed to bring weapons.

So, your silliness aside, got anything of value to offer? :coffeepap




But we trust our kids with cars, killing in combat, sports, and other dangerous activities. the fact that you think you couldn't handle the responsibility, does not mean that others could not as well.


now you claim that these shootings are rare, but, tell me about campus assault rates including rape and sexual battery... Tell me, do you feel vindicated when a woman is attacked because on her way back to her car from a class because you kept a gun out of her hand?
 
But we trust our kids with cars, killing in combat, sports, and other dangerous activities. the fact that you think you couldn't handle the responsibility, does not mean that others could not as well.


now you claim that these shootings are rare, but, tell me about campus assault rates including rape and sexual battery... Tell me, do you feel vindicated when a woman is attacked because on her way back to her car from a class because you kept a gun out of her hand?

Again, there is a need for a car. Though I might not allow sixteen years to drive as some states do. As the military, young and stupid is good for a grunt. As a mature person to charge a hill, and he might ask why? Sports are often under surpervision.

And I don't think anything. I know the irresponsible things I did while young. And if you're honest, you can think of some pretty stupid things you did.

As for the assults, we need more definition as I told James. A good number of those can be quite minor, and I suspect not the type of thing you need a gun for. We alos need to know how many of the more serious and exactly where they occur. Bet they are not occuring in the classroom, or at thelibrary, or at any school function. More likely at parties where students put themselves more at risk than in the classroom.

And frankly, you assume the gun would save her. Unless she walks with it drawn, odds are it would be of little to no help. She'd be better off doing what most schools do, if it is late and a risk time, securiy is around, if not walkign with them.

Again, more information is needed. But all these statisitcs, as noted in the information your side has provided, are far less than off campus.
 
Again, there is a need for a car. Though I might not allow sixteen years to drive as some states do. As the military, young and stupid is good for a grunt. As a mature person to charge a hill, and he might ask why? Sports are often under surpervision.


So soldiers are young and stupid, and older folks would refuse orders.... Nice...



as for sports, there are far more fights in league hockey than open hockey. :shrug:



And I don't think anything. I know the irresponsible things I did while young. And if you're honest, you can think of some pretty stupid things you did.


I did, however I never shot anyone, nor did I stab anyone, nor did I run anyone down with my car. I trusted myself to not do these things. Sorry you didn't. but don't project your failures and lack of self control on everyone else.


As for the assults, we need more definition as I told James. A good number of those can be quite minor, and I suspect not the type of thing you need a gun for. We alos need to know how many of the more serious and exactly where they occur. Bet they are not occuring in the classroom, or at thelibrary, or at any school function. More likely at parties where students put themselves more at risk than in the classroom.


Oh so it's ok if it's a little beating. And you are a school administrator? :lamo


Professor at my college raped and killed in her classroom - THR
Alice Sebold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fighting Bodies, Fighting Words « Feminist Ideas and Praxis
Charges against dark demon serial murderer dismissed on technicality - NNN Reporters Newsroom Forum


I can go on, but I know it's pointless to argue with the hoplophobic who doesn't believe he posesses the self control needed to carry and projects that on others.



And frankly, you assume the gun would save her. Unless she walks with it drawn, odds are it would be of little to no help. She'd be better off doing what most schools do, if it is late and a risk time, securiy is around, if not walkign with them.


Where did I assume that? Frankly it simply ups her chances, that and training, that and the fact that the savages you inadvertantly are protecting would think twice if he thought folks may be armed....


Again, more information is needed. But all these statisitcs, as noted in the information your side has provided, are far less than off campus.


this sentence makes little sense.
 
So soldiers are young and stupid, and older folks would refuse orders.... Nice...



as for sports, there are far more fights in league hockey than open hockey. :shrug:

Not exactly what I said. You're being silly again. And in hockey they have coaches and referees to omnitor anc control.





I did, however I never shot anyone, nor did I stab anyone, nor did I run anyone down with my car. I trusted myself to not do these things. Sorry you didn't. but don't project your failures and lack of self control on everyone else.

No I didn't shoot anyone either, but I know young folk who did, on accident, being irresponsible.





Feel free to go on, but only the first one comes close to saying anything concerning the issue as best I can tell. Being a college student doesn't mean the act happen at college.

Nor do you seem to understand what is being said, again. I doubt seriously even in your one example the person alone would have saved herself with a gun.

Where did I assume that? Frankly it simply ups her chances, that and training, that and the fact that the savages you inadvertantly are protecting would think twice if he thought folks may be armed....

Ups her chances of getting hurt as well.



this sentence makes little sense.

There's less risk on campus by a wide margin. James gave us those statisitics, and he's on your side of this issue.
 
Not exactly what I said. You're being silly again. And in hockey they have coaches and referees to omnitor anc control.

Not in open hockey, and there are less fights there.

No I didn't shoot anyone either, but I know young folk who did, on accident, being irresponsible.

Statistics I have shown previouslt indicate you are probably lying.

Feel free to go on, but only the first one comes close to saying anything concerning the issue as best I can tell. Being a college student doesn't mean the act happen at college.


A woman could be raped on your desk and you would deny it. Perhaps you should find a better suited job.... Do you deny there is violence on campus? really? :shock:



Nor do you seem to understand what is being said, again. I doubt seriously even in your one example the person alone would have saved herself with a gun.


This is the boo radley shuffle, claim I don't understand then post utter nonsense. What experience do you have to come to your "doubts"? Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense, what makes you so sure this woman wouldn't have been another one? Your blind bias?



Ups her chances of getting hurt as well.

That's her business. Something called "Acceptable risk" you a hoplophobic anti-gunner has no business telling this woman she cant choose to carry a gun for self defense because she might accidentally (rare possibility) hurt herself. Until you say the same about driving and crossing the street, your being hypocritical as usual.


There's less risk on campus by a wide margin. James gave us those statisitics, and he's on your side of this issue.


If you have statistics, then post them, don't hide behind the guise of "someone else already posted". I don't see it, stop the boo radley shuffle and post up....
 
Do you deny there is violence on campus? really? :shock:


Overall, there is not a lot of violence. And there is not enough of the type that would require a gun that would justify the risk of a gun. There is a higher risk that with people bringing guns on campus that someone would get hurt than someone getting hurt without there being guns on campus. We know this because we know the accident statisitics with firearms, and the extremely low number of people being hurt on campus by actions that would require a gun.



This is the boo radley shuffle, claim I don't understand then post utter nonsense. What experience do you have to come to your "doubts"? Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense, what makes you so sure this woman wouldn't have been another one? Your blind bias?

I'm sorry, but your statisitic is skewed. Someone saying they used it in self defense is not equal to proving it was used in self defense. There is almost no objective statisitics on a gun being used in self defense. The number you cite comes for a poll, which relies on the honesty of the person being polled, and their personal intepreptation of what is self defense.

Now, as to you not understanding, as you throw out off the wall stuff that has nothing to do with the point being made or sometimes even the issue of discussion, I'm left to conclude you don't understand. if you really do understand, let me know by actually addressing the point. That would help both of us I would think.

That's her business. Something called "Acceptable risk" you a hoplophobic anti-gunner has no business telling this woman she cant choose to carry a gun for self defense because she might accidentally (rare possibility) hurt herself. Until you say the same about driving and crossing the street, your being hypocritical as usual.

Not when it elevates the risk for everyone else. Gun rights are not absolute, and restrictions of when and where you can carry them has been a part of law for a long time.


If you have statistics, then post them, don't hide behind the guise of "someone else already posted". I don't see it, stop the boo radley shuffle and post up....

James posted them already. All you have to do is read them.
 
Overall, there is not a lot of violence. And there is not enough of the type that would require a gun that would justify the risk of a gun. There is a higher risk that with people bringing guns on campus that someone would get hurt than someone getting hurt without there being guns on campus. We know this because we know the accident statisitics with firearms, and the extremely low number of people being hurt on campus by actions that would require a gun.
[/quiote]


That is simply your opinion. Places that have higher CCW have lower crime, that is fact.

You don't trust yourself, and you project that onto others, at thier peril.


I'm sorry, but your statisitic is skewed. Someone saying they used it in self defense is not equal to proving it was used in self defense. There is almost no objective statisitics on a gun being used in self defense. The number you cite comes for a poll, which relies on the honesty of the person being polled, and their personal intepreptation of what is self defense.


Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2

* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"—a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.3

* Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.4

* Anti-gun journal pronounces the failure of the Brady law. One of the nation’s leading anti-gun medical publications, the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that the Brady registration law has failed to reduce murder rates. In August 2000, JAMA reported that states implementing waiting periods and background checks did "not [experience] reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates."5

* Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. That’s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.6

* More guns, less crime. In the decade of the 1990s, the number of guns in this country increased by roughly 40 million—even while the murder rate decreased by almost 40% percent.7 Accidental gun deaths in the home decreased by almost 40 percent as well.8

* CDC admits there is no evidence that gun control reduces crime. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has long been criticized for propagating questionable studies which gun control organizations have used in defense of their cause. But after analyzing 51 studies in 2003, the CDC concluded that the "evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these [firearms] laws."9

* Gun shows are NOT a primary source of illegal guns for criminals. According to two government studies, the National Institute of Justice reported in 1997 that "less than two percent [of criminals] reported obtaining [firearms] from a gun show."10 And the Bureau of Justice Statistics revealed in 2001 that less than one percent of firearm offenders acquired their weapons at gun shows.11

* Several polls show that Americans are very pro-gun. Several scientific polls indicate that the right to keep and bear arms is still revered—and gun control disdained—by a majority of Americans today. To mention just a few recent polls:

* In 2002, an ABC News poll found that almost three-fourths of the American public believe that the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of "individuals" to own guns.12

* Zogby pollsters found that by a more than 3 to 1 margin, Americans support punishing "criminals who use a gun in the commission of a crime" over legislation to "ban handguns."13

* A Research 2000 poll found that 85% of Americans would find it appropriate for a principal or teacher to use "a gun at school to defend the lives of students" to stop a school massacre.14

* A study claiming "guns are three times more likely to kill you than help you" is a total fraud. Even using the low figures from the Clinton Justice Department, firearms are used almost 50 times more often to save life than to take life.15 More importantly, however, the figure claiming one is three times more likely to be killed by one’s own gun is a total lie:

* Researcher Don Kates reveals that all available data now indicates that the "home gun homicide victims [in the flawed study] were killed using guns not kept in the victim's home."16

* In other words, the victims were NOT murdered with their own guns! They were killed "by intruders who brought their own guns to the victim's household."17

* Gun-free England not such a utopia after all. According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.18 And according to a United Nations study, British citizens are more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States. The 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.19


GUN CONTROL FACT-SHEET (2004) - Gun Owners Of America



I can only lead the hoplophobic to the truth, if you want to boo radley shuffle around it. It's almost quittin time. :roll:



Now, as to you not understanding, as you throw out off the wall stuff that has nothing to do with the point being made or sometimes even the issue of discussion, I'm left to conclude you don't understand. if you really do understand, let me know by actually addressing the point. That would help both of us I would think.


I think what would help at least one of us is the services of a medical professional to alieviate some of that anxiety one feels over an inanimate object, and to also address self esteem issues regarding thier ability to maintain self control if in possesion of a gun.


Not when it elevates the risk for everyone else. Gun rights are not absolute, and restrictions of when and where you can carry them has been a part of law for a long time.


What part of "shall not be infringed" gives you trouble. You have yet to prove it elevates risk.


James posted them already. All you have to do is read them.


I accept you were full of it and were trying to duck out of an uncomfortable situation, the boo radley shuffle.....
 
Places that have higher CCW have lower crime, that is fact.

You don't trust yourself, and you project that onto others, at thier peril.

Yeah, I remember when anti gun people used simplar statistic to show the Brady Bill was working. Both make a fundamental logical fallacy. it's called the causal relationship fallacy.


Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2

url=http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm]GUN CONTROL FACT-SHEET (2004) - Gun Owners Of America

Yes, I'm familiar with the progun site, but like above have explained the flaws in what you are presenting.



I think what would help at least one of us is the services of a medical professional to alieviate some of that anxiety one feels over an inanimate object, and to also address self esteem issues regarding thier ability to maintain self control if in possesion of a gun.

Or the irratinal belief that if solves all problems, or an emotaional attachment to an inanimate object. See, I can do that as well. ;)




What part of "shall not be infringed" gives you trouble. You have yet to prove it elevates risk.

Well, the courts have repeatedly allowed regulation. Perhaps you don't understand the amendment as well as you think you do. Just saying . . . :coffeepap


I accept you were full of it and were trying to duck out of an uncomfortable situation, the boo radley shuffle.....

See what I mean, this has nothing to do with what was said. Read it again and try again:

James posted them (the statisitics) already. All you have to do is read them.
 
Yeah, I remember when anti gun people used simplar statistic to show the Brady Bill was working. Both make a fundamental logical fallacy. it's called the causal relationship fallacy.


Yes, I'm familiar with the progun site, but like above have explained the flaws in what you are presenting.


this is why you are a waste of time. each one of those points are sourced from places like the FBI, the CDC, and other government agencies, you see a pro gun sight that your daily kos can't counter and you close shop. :shrug:



Or the irratinal belief that if solves all problems, or an emotaional attachment to an inanimate object. See, I can do that as well. ;)


Except yours has no basis in fact. no where did I claim it was a guarantee, or that it solves all problems, nor have I shown an "emotaional"[sic] attachment to an inanimate object....


nice strawman....



Well, the courts have repeatedly allowed regulation. Perhaps you don't understand the amendment as well as you think you do. Just saying . . . :coffeepap


or judges overstep thier authority when it comes to liberty based on the whining of hoplophobes who have no trust in thier own ability at self control and want to impose restrictions on those of us who do have said control to feel better about themselves.


See what I mean, this has nothing to do with what was said. Read it again and try again:


Boo Radley Shuffle... The avoidance dance.



And what, no links to the statistics, shocking, I sooo expected you to make a rational argument and back it up... My bad. :roll:
 
this is why you are a waste of time. each one of those points are sourced from places like the FBI, the CDC, and other government agencies, you see a pro gun sight that your daily kos can't counter and you close shop. :shrug:

No, not each one. Nor or the conclusions. The number of self defense, for example, comes from a poll, and not any objective information. And the evidence that having gun reduces crime is a subject as the evidence that gun control reduces crime, not something I claimed btw, so of no importance to or discussion.



Except yours has no basis in fact. no where did I claim it was a guarantee, or that it solves all problems, nor have I shown an "emotaional"[sic] attachment to an inanimate object....

Nor have I said I had any anxiety. It is the same.





or judges overstep thier authority when it comes to liberty based on the whining of hoplophobes who have no trust in thier own ability at self control and want to impose restrictions on those of us who do have said control to feel better about themselves.

That is your subjective personal opinion, but with all the challenges, the laws stand and have been upheld by and large. It is possible, just possible, you are wrong.




Boo Radley Shuffle... The avoidance dance.

And what, no links to the statistics, shocking, I sooo expected you to make a rational argument and back it up... My bad. :roll:

More your suffle as the stats have already been posted. Go back and read.
 
No, not each one. Nor or the conclusions. The number of self defense, for example, comes from a poll, and not any objective information. And the evidence that having gun reduces crime is a subject as the evidence that gun control reduces crime, not something I claimed btw, so of no importance to or discussion.


Step one of a boo radley shuffle, cherrypick one item in a list and poo poo it disregarding all the other available data....



Nor have I said I had any anxiety. It is the same.

Step two of the boo radley shuffle, make an absurd claim, then when it's pointed out, take an obvious real position, and claim it as the same....


That is your subjective personal opinion, but with all the challenges, the laws stand and have been upheld by and large. It is possible, just possible, you are wrong.

Step 3 of a boo radley shuffle, go completley ambiguous to sound like you are saying something when your not, dilute the topic so your the weak points your making disapear into obscurity..






More your suffle as the stats have already been posted. Go back and read.

Step 4 of a boo radley shuffle, try to make the other poster "go fish" to avoid proving any point you are trying to make....



Repeat ad nauseum.....
 
Back
Top Bottom