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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    from your article:


    Overall, violent-crime rates in Arizona are not far from rates for the U.S. as a whole, but the rate of deaths specifically tied to guns surprises national experts.

    FAIL



    Please explain in detail why you consider that one sentence evidence of a fail.


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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post



    Please explain in detail why you consider that one sentence evidence of a fail.



    What that thier rates are in line with the country average? Please this hoplophobic hysteria is a bit much.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    What that thier rates are in line with the country average? Please this hoplophobic hysteria is a bit much.
    And the rest of the sentence... how is that evidence of a fail?

    And the other details presented in the article? (which I know you read before posting)

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    And the rest of the sentence... how is that evidence of a fail?

    And the other details presented in the article? (which I know you read before posting)



    I did, the article is an anti-gun hit piece that takes bits of data to paint an innacurate picture.


    The only line in there that is truthful is the one where it states what I quoted, that it's in line with the rest of the country...



    And better than California, one of the most restrictive states.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 02-23-11 at 04:11 PM.
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    What are the rules of engagement? If someone else flashes theirs first does that make them the starter of the firefight? Is it illegal to duel? What can't I do with my gun?
    Take a concealed carry course. Or read Massad Ayoobs "In the Gravest Extreme". For starters. The fact that we have had decades of CC throughout the US and it hasnt yet devolved into the "wild wild west" is a pretty good indicator that MOST folks that carry do so responsibly. 'People' can do all kinds of things with their firearms. Most arent so stupid that they present a risk to others. Those that are that stupid likely arent impacted by this or any other law.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Is that the same Arizona with one of the worst gun-death rates in the U.S. ??



    For a state that's mostly desert, people seem to get shot all over the place.

    New GOP talking point: "At the OK Coral, mostly bad guys got shot... mostly."
    This isnt exactly what you call 'damning' evidence...especially coming from the writers of the study (taken verbatim from the article you linked)
    "You can take very seriously the CDC data," he said, "as long as you keep in mind that there isn't any relationship between gun-ownership rates and the total suicide rate or homicide rate."

    Zimring and Kleck caution against presumptions that state gun laws explain gun-death numbers, saying there are too many other factors involved.Read more: Arizona's gun-death rate among the worst in U.S.

    Ummmmm...yeah...so....

    Also, while they discuss suicide numbers (by firearm) higher than say...Massachusettes...they still dont lead the nation in firearm related suicides, nor does that mean there are less suicides...just by means other than firearms.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    The point is, the only point, public safety trumps the 2nd Amendment.
    No it doesn't. Rights trump safety.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Collage admins must put campus safety above all other concerns. There is no logical, practical, reason or benefit to have handguns on campus.

    The GOP and NRA like to read the 2nd Amendment through a keyhole, thinking what works in WI should work in NYC. What works in rural areas DOES NOT work, is NOT PRACTICAL in urban areas.

    Even the most conservative of law enforcement agents, criminal prosecutors, judges favor gun control that fits their community.
    But you've shown no data. Why should I infringe upon the rights of others based on your supposition? Here's the thing. In Colorado, concealed carry on campus is allowed. Colorado State University has a bar, it has concealed carry, hell Fort Collins proper has open carry. You can bring your guns where you like, businesses must post no firearms allowed signs. You can take it into the bar (so long as you ain't drinking) too. You know how much of a problem this is? None. No shootings, no drunken students in the bar pulling out guns, no threat to public safety, nothing.

    Students in college are adults and as such entitled to exercise the full of their rights. You can't just say "oh it will be bad" based on no data, just assumption and supposition, and believe that it is valid argument to restrict the exercise of our rights. You're gonna need a little bit more.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I think it works. Regardless of size, it has a purpose not meant to use at school. And that right has been subject to all kinds of restrictions from the very begining of this country. nothing new in restricting where you can carry it.
    Of course backhoes are allowed on school property. We remodeled an entire school just 2 years ago, and we had much bigger equipment on the grounds than a mere backho-loader. There were periods of time where the equipment was in operation while class was in session, too. So you see this analogy simply doesn't fit. I know you think it does, but your reader isn't getting it, so I suggest trying something different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Do you believe eveyone knows the tools they carry?
    The ones who don't stand out because most do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What would you consider evidence, as this is always part of the problem with these discussions.
    I began this thread by quoting an international Harvard study. That is the nature of evidence you need to bring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What role would people being armed play in the classroom?
    Professor, Administrator, Student, Janitor, or 3rd party contractor, as appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What puropose would there be for having a number carrying guns?
    Self defense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sure many won't, but what would it say about those who do?
    I'd probably talk shop with them in the commons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What does it say about them?
    That they like not being assaulted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Any chance somoene would want to show off?
    Of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Any chance a young person would beimmature, and armed?
    Crime is everywhere, so I can't rule it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure what you're looking for, but it doesn't take much reasoning to see why this is a bad idea. I can't see many schools supporting this.
    You haven't given even one reason why firearms should be banned from school grounds.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-23-11 at 05:00 PM.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Seriously? No one even glances at the only bit of hard data supplied in this thread? There is no conclusive evidence validating either side of the argument.

    The reasoning behind banning firearms from school grounds to me seems obvious enough, I don't know about the schools you've been to, but I've seen (and sadly been apart of) some of the really stupid fights that happen at schools. They are places that combine huge amounts of stress with copious amounts of mind-altering substances. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that adding guns to that mix is a really, really bad idea.

    I understand that you yourself may be a responsible gun-owner, but most people that I know that own weapons are NOT responsible. Or at the very least not all the time. And the amount of effort it takes to kill someone with a gun is so slight, the speed so quick, that rage-killings are so easy with that weapon.

    Imagine tossing a gun into a bar-brawl. You instantly go from maybe a broken bone or two to death.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Seriously? No one even glances at the only bit of hard data supplied in this thread? There is no conclusive evidence validating either side of the argument.

    The reasoning behind banning firearms from school grounds to me seems obvious enough, I don't know about the schools you've been to, but I've seen (and sadly been apart of) some of the really stupid fights that happen at schools. They are places that combine huge amounts of stress with copious amounts of mind-altering substances. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that adding guns to that mix is a really, really bad idea.

    I understand that you yourself may be a responsible gun-owner, but most people that I know that own weapons are NOT responsible. Or at the very least not all the time. And the amount of effort it takes to kill someone with a gun is so slight, the speed so quick, that rage-killings are so easy with that weapon.

    Imagine tossing a gun into a bar-brawl. You instantly go from maybe a broken bone or two to death.
    Seeing a lot of brawls on college campuses these days?

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