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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You do know, for example, in AZ, and other states where it is permitted, the consumption of alcohol and carrying is illegal right?
    You would think that if someone had a problem with drinking on campus, that they would support carrying on campus, as the laws preventing one from consuming alcohol while armed would deture the drinking.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Then I guess I don't understand your point in saying that guns are not a cure all, as though they need to be, if we agree that cure-alls don't exist.



    Ok, but I would, so what evidence do you have that demonstrates why I should not be allowed?
    I'm sure your church would have a problem with you bringina backhoe in the building. So would most. And even though some thing they have the right to do so, we would still bar them from doing so. There is no place in school for a gun, just as there is no place in the pew for a backhoe. And that is true no matter anyone's personal view.

    As for a cure all, many seem to think we can solve problems by being armed, while ignoreing the new problems associated with weapons. They are tools like all other tools, no more and no less. Just because someone can own a hammer doesn't mean they know how to use one. Over the years I've seen far too many reason cahlleneged people hurt themselves and others with weapons they simply didn't have the experience and training to use, many having attended mandatory classes (go figure).

    The point is, the tool is not for use in schools. And schools hold a population less likely to be responsible.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You do know, for example, in AZ, and other states where it is permitted, the consumption of alcohol and carrying is illegal right?
    Is that the same Arizona with one of the worst gun-death rates in the U.S. ??

    Overall, violent-crime rates in Arizona are not far from rates for the U.S. as a whole, but the rate of deaths specifically tied to guns surprises national experts.

    Crime-victimization patterns that measure factors such as age and racial demographics suggest that Arizona would figure to be among the states with a lower risk for violent crime.

    "That's much higher than I would expect the state to be," said Franklin Zimring, a law professor at the University of California-Berkeley who studies demographic factors in crime. "The demographic-risk profile should keep Arizona lower. It's higher than expected. Now, the question is: Why?"

    Gun violence is facing renewed scrutiny after the Jan. 8 massacre near Tucson that killed six and wounded 13, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., a gun-rights advocate herself.

    Arizona, as the cultural symbol of the Old West with a fierce independent streak and strong support for gun rights, is the focus of that interest.


    LINK
    For a state that's mostly desert, people seem to get shot all over the place.

    New GOP talking point: "At the OK Coral, mostly bad guys got shot... mostly."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The point is, the tool is not for use in schools. And schools hold a population less likely to be responsible.
    College all the students are adults. Are you saying it's ok to infringe upon their rights because they are not likely to be responsible with those rights?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I dunno, most of them who make it through college, seem to be quite stable. take out the taboo of guns and it becomes a non issue..... I'd be more concerned with a middle aged adult male living in LA who is afraid of guns and never held one, with one, than say a 12 year old who has been around guns and hunting since he was three...


    As to the topic.

    I will post this again....


    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman


    I suggest everyone read it.





    Read the rest of it. it explains many of our positions well.
    There two kinds of sheep, those that honor the sheepdog, and those that don't.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sure your church would have a problem with you bringina backhoe in the building. So would most. And even though some thing they have the right to do so, we would still bar them from doing so. There is no place in school for a gun, just as there is no place in the pew for a backhoe. And that is true no matter anyone's personal view.
    You might want to pick an analogy which fits the nature of a firearm if you want your argument to be understood. A backhoe doesn't physically fit through the door, a pistol does. Carrying heavy equipment is not a specifically enumerated constitutional right, but to keep and bear is. I understand that you don't think firearms belong in a verity of places, I got that. But I disagree, so now what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As for a cure all, many seem to think we can solve problems by being armed, while ignoreing the new problems associated with weapons.
    Firearms can and do solve problems, just not every problem or all the time.

    True story:
    Just a few days ago my brother's X (we're still friends) called me up at 2am asking me to pick her up. She was at her new BF's house and he had been drinking. Apparently he's an ass when he gets his drink on. Jack Daniels tends to bring that out in people. Anyway, when I got there he thought I was competition (believe me, oh hell no I'm not) and came out his door to start ****. She stopped him, insisted that we weren't seeing each other, and not to start a fight because I had a gun.

    He stopped, offered us both some colorful adjectives, and stood on his porch describing how he could kick my ass. I didn't react, I just stayed in my car. She got in, we left, that was it.

    The mere presence of a gun stopped a fight that night. I didn't even have to show it.

    So yes, guns do solve problems, but that doesn't mean anyone is insisting they solve every problem all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They are tools like all other tools, no more and no less. Just because someone can own a hammer doesn't mean they know how to use one. Over the years I've seen far too many reason cahlleneged people hurt themselves and others with weapons they simply didn't have the experience and training to use, many having attended mandatory classes (go figure).
    When on the job, I always bring every tool I own to every site, because I never know. Granted I only own personal tools and not big chop saws, but I only own personal weapons and not machine-guns, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The point is, the tool is not for use in schools. And schools hold a population less likely to be responsible.
    Yes, I got that this is your position. What I'm asking you for is evidence.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-23-11 at 02:04 PM.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Is that the same Arizona with one of the worst gun-death rates in the U.S. ??



    For a state that's mostly desert, people seem to get shot all over the place.

    New GOP talking point: "At the OK Coral, mostly bad guys got shot... mostly."
    Look, we already know the kind of people, and many times who, want to disarm the public. No need to for you to come out and tell us who you are.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You might want to pick an analogy which fits the nature of a firearm if you want your argument to be understood. A backhoe doesn't physically fit through the door, a pistol does. Carrying heavy equipment is not a specifically enumerated constitutional right, but to keep and bear is. I understand that you don't think firearms belong in a verity of places, I got that. But I disagree, so now what?
    No, I think it works. Regardless of size, it has a purpose not meant to use at school. And that right has been subject to all kinds of restrictions from the very begining of this country. nothing new in restricting where you can carry it.

    Firearms can and do solve problems, just not every problem or all the time.


    True story:
    Just a few days ago my brother's X (we're still friends) called me up at 2am asking me to pick her up. She was at her new BF's house and he had been drinking. Apparently he's an ass when he gets his drink on. Jack Daniels tends to bring that out in people. Anyway, when I got there he thought I was competition (believe me, oh hell no I'm not) and came out his door to start ****. She stopped him, insisted that we weren't seeing each other, and not to start a fight because I had a gun.

    He stopped, offered us both some colorful adjectives, and stood on his porch describing how he could kick my ass. I didn't react, I just stayed in my car. She got in, we left, that was it.

    The mere presence of a gun stopped a fight that night. I didn't even have to show it.

    So yes, guns do solve problems, but that doesn't mean anyone is insisting they solve every problem all the time.
    You reach a conclusion that may or may not be true. I've dealt with many such people, getting the same result without a gun. You choose to believe it is the gun, but he may have backed down anyway. You have no way of knowing.



    When on the job, I always bring every tool I own to every site, because I never know. Granted I only own personal tools and not big chop saws, but I only own personal weapons and not machine-guns, either.
    Do you believe eveyone knows the tools they carry?

    Yes, I got that this is your position. What I'm asking you for is evidence.
    What would you consider evidence, as this is always part of the problem with these discussions. What role would people being armed play in the classroom? What puropose would there be for having a number carrying guns? I'm sure many won't, but what would it say about those who do? What does it say about them? Any chance somoene would want to show off? Any chance a young person would beimmature, and armed?

    Not sure what you're looking for, but it doesn't take much reasoning to see why this is a bad idea. I can't see many schools supporting this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Is that the same Arizona with one of the worst gun-death rates in the U.S. ??



    For a state that's mostly desert, people seem to get shot all over the place.

    New GOP talking point: "At the OK Coral, mostly bad guys got shot... mostly."

    from your article:


    Overall, violent-crime rates in Arizona are not far from rates for the U.S. as a whole, but the rate of deaths specifically tied to guns surprises national experts.

    FAIL


    I'm also not a GOP member...


    FAILx2
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    College all the students are adults. Are you saying it's ok to infringe upon their rights because they are not likely to be responsible with those rights?
    The point is, the only point, public safety trumps the 2nd Amendment.

    Collage admins must put campus safety above all other concerns. There is no logical, practical, reason or benefit to have handguns on campus.

    The GOP and NRA like to read the 2nd Amendment through a keyhole, thinking what works in WI should work in NYC. What works in rural areas DOES NOT work, is NOT PRACTICAL in urban areas.

    Even the most conservative of law enforcement agents, criminal prosecutors, judges favor gun control that fits their community.

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