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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

  1. #131
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Allowing firearms on campus can only be a good thing.

    EDITORIAL: Guns decrease murder rates



    Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive



    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Criminals generally want easy targets. Having a gun makes you a harder target. When you're in a population which carries, you are safer even if you don't carry a gun yourself, because a criminal has no way of knowing if you're carrying concealed or not and doesn't want to risk finding out the hard way.


    Pistol: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Automatic rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Grenade launcher: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    Patriot missile battery: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    Nuclear warheads: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.

    Tanks are not weapons. Tanks are vehicles weapons can be mounted in, but anyone with enough money to buy one can own one. That doesn't mean you can have a functioning cannon, 50cal machine gun, 2 saw machine guns, or grenades...it means you can ave the tank and the tank only.

    You can own a black hawk helicopter, also...doesn't mean you can have the twin mini-guns.

    ***
    We're talking about citizens 21 years of age and older, who also have a CCW, carrying a pistol on campus.

    Because all college students are so mentally stable... especially on Friday nights at kegger parities.

    This is stupid beyond stupid.

    Go Texas!!

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Because all college students are so mentally stable... especially on Friday nights at kegger parities.

    This is stupid beyond stupid.

    Go Texas!!


    I dunno, most of them who make it through college, seem to be quite stable. take out the taboo of guns and it becomes a non issue..... I'd be more concerned with a middle aged adult male living in LA who is afraid of guns and never held one, with one, than say a 12 year old who has been around guns and hunting since he was three...




    As to the topic.

    I will post this again....


    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman


    I suggest everyone read it.


    Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

    One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:

    "Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

    Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

    I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

    "Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

    "Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

    If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed

    Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

    But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

    The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

    Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

    Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

    Read the rest of it. it explains many of our positions well.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

  3. #133
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I already understand that people feel that guns are a hazard. What I haven't seen is evidence rationalizing this fear.

    I appreciate the article you linked to, it seems to represent each side's argument fairly. Though, it seems that you posted it as evidence, which it's not. If that wasn't your intention, that's just fine, as I said it was a fine article on it's own account.

    I'm hopping to understand this fear of guns in bars by reviewing the evidence backing up that argument. If you ever find any, please share it here.
    I support right to carry laws but, I think allowing guns in bars isn't such a good idea since alcohol is a factor in a large percentage of shootings. Drinking and guns are not a good combination. It just doesn't seem right in my opinion.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    I support right to carry laws but, I think allowing guns in bars isn't such a good idea since alcohol is a factor in a large percentage of shootings. Drinking and guns are not a good combination. It just doesn't seem right in my opinion.

    You do know, for example, in AZ, and other states where it is permitted, the consumption of alcohol and carrying is illegal right?
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Because all college students are so mentally stable... especially on Friday nights at kegger parities.

    This is stupid beyond stupid.

    Go Texas!!
    Did you have a sourced argument to bring, or was your vague anecdote it all you have?

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    I support right to carry laws but, I think allowing guns in bars isn't such a good idea since alcohol is a factor in a large percentage of shootings. Drinking and guns are not a good combination. It just doesn't seem right in my opinion.
    If I understand you correctly, you're saying that noone should be allowed to carry into Chicky-Cheese, Chillies or Applebees because there will be drunken gun fights, correct?

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    I support right to carry laws but, I think allowing guns in bars isn't such a good idea since alcohol is a factor in a large percentage of shootings. Drinking and guns are not a good combination. It just doesn't seem right in my opinion.
    Then people shouldn't be allow to have guns at home. Since you can get in a drunken rage with people at home too.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If I understand you correctly, you're saying that noone should be allowed to carry into Chicky-Cheese, Chillies or Applebees because there will be drunken gun fights, correct?
    No, I am referring to corner bars, neighborhood taverns, nightclubs, meat markets and anywhere folks go to do their binge drinking.
    Just wondering, if someone pulled a gun on you in a bar and you pulled yours out and shot him, which one of you would probably go to jail? Or shots ring out in the bar, so you pull out your handgun, how will everyone else in the bar carrying know that you are the good guy?
    I think I would stay out of bars that allow handguns on the premises.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15111438...me_and_courts/
    It may seem so, with media attention focused on a spate of school shootings. In fact, school shootings are extremely rare. Even including the more common violence that is gang-related or dispute-related, only 12 to 20 homicides a year occur in the 100,000 schools in the U.S. In general, school assaults and other violence have dropped by nearly half in the past decade.
    Last edited by USA_1; 02-23-11 at 10:40 AM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  9. #139
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Then people shouldn't be allow to have guns at home. Since you can get in a drunken rage with people at home too.
    This is true.
    A minor child (under 18) can both carry a loaded pistol and drink while at home...just not at the same time.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    No, I am referring to corner bars, neighborhood taverns, nightclubs, meat markets and anywhere folks go to do their binge drinking.
    The law makes no distinction between one business which serves alcohol and another.

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    Just wondering, if someone pulled a gun on you in a bar and you pulled yours out and shot him, which one of you would probably go to jail?
    That's highly circumstantial.

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    Or shots ring out in the bar, so you pull out your handgun, how will everyone else in the bar carrying know that you are the good guy?
    I thought about that, actually, because that situation could happen anywhere.

    Here was my solution:





    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    I think I would stay out of bars that allow handguns on the premises.
    I stay out of locations which ban firearms, so I guess we balance each-other out.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-23-11 at 10:43 AM.

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