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Thread: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

  1. #71
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Make an attempt to contact whomever is acting honcho. Help them organize.
    I'm not sure what help you're suggesting. In what way are we capable of helping them organize?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    That's just stupid, dude.
    That's what I imagine when you talk of sending them "material support." If you're referring to something else, by all means please explain your strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    You don't know that.

    You don't know they're going to win, either. All the more reason to help them.
    No, I don't know that they're going to win. It doesn't change the fact that unless/until they do, our options for helping them are limited. The United States is not omnipotent.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    You didn't say that when you wanted to launch a massive peace keeping mission to the Ivory Coast.
    I never said anything about a "massive peacekeeping mission," I suggested we send a few thousand troops to depose the old regime and stay there a couple months. Besides, the dynamics are entirely different. I was talking about a small African country where the US enjoys a 95% approval rating, that has already democratically elected its next president, where the old president has a puny military and only enough money to keep them happy for a couple months. You're talking about taking sides in a dispute in a large Arab country which is armed to the teeth, and sending our soldiers in to clash with a long-entrenched regime. There's a SLIGHT difference there.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You say that, as if Qhadaffi is already an ally.
    He's not an ally, but relations have been improving steadily for the last decade. Qadaffi obviously wanted to get back into the West's good graces, and had been taking concrete actions to do so. George Bush's rapprochement with Libya was one of the foreign policy highlights of his administration, IMO.

    If his regime does manage to hold onto power, I don't want him going back to his old ways of running a pariah state and pursuing WMDs. No one wins in that scenario. That's why I think we should continue to press for nonviolence and freedom of speech, without actively siding with the protesters.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    They're gonna Mow-em-down.

    Gadhafi's son warns of civil war in Libya - Yahoo! News
    By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press – Sun Feb 20, 10:34 pm ET

    CAIRO – After anti-government unrest spread to the Libyan capital of Tripoli and protesters seized military bases and weapons Sunday, Moammar Gadhafi's son went on state television to proclaim that his father remained in charge with the army's backing and would "fight until the last man, the last woman, the last bullet."
    Seif al-Islam Gadhafi, in the regime's first comments on the six days of demonstrations, warned the protesters that they risked igniting a civil war in which Libya's oil wealth "will be burned."

    The speech followed a fierce crackdown by security forces who fired on thousands of demonstrators and funeral marchers in the eastern city of Benghazi in a bloody cycle of violence that killed 60 people on Sunday alone, according to a doctor in one city hospital. Since the six days of unrest began, more than 200 people have been killed, according to medical officials, human rights groups and exiled dissidents.

    Libya response has been the harshest of any Arab country that has been wracked by the protests that toppled long-serving leaders in neighboring Tunisia and Egypt. But Gadhafi's son said his father would prevail.

    "We are not Tunisia and Egypt," he said. "Moammar Gadhafi, our leader, is leading the battle in Tripoli, and we are with him.

    "The armed forces are with him. Tens of thousands are heading here to be with him. We will fight until the last man, the last woman, the last bullet," he said in a Rambling and sometimes Confused speech of nearly 40 minutes."..."
    Last edited by mbig; 02-21-11 at 02:55 AM.
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  4. #74
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    He's not an ally, but relations have been improving steadily for the last decade. Qadaffi obviously wanted to get back into the West's good graces, and had been taking concrete actions to do so. George Bush's rapprochement with Libya was one of the foreign policy highlights of his administration, IMO.

    If his regime does manage to hold onto power, I don't want him going back to his old ways of running a pariah state and pursuing WMDs. No one wins in that scenario. That's why I think we should continue to press for nonviolence and freedom of speech, without actively siding with the protesters.
    Relations have improved steadily, since we bombed his stupid ass. That was accelerated, when he saw how quickly that GW would launch an invasion. That's how folks in that part of the world think. All your diplomacy don't mean jack **** to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I didn't say the SADF was working with Gadaffi, however the ANC is very very friendly with him, considering he was a big supporter of them back during the struggle, he also supported nut jobs like Idi Amin

    All in all, after the Angola Bush war, there were a **** load of highly trained, battle hardened South African soldiers who were hired out by all kinds of people to do all kinds of things.

    I wasn't suggesting there was a massive contingent of South African ex soldiers in Libya, but again, I'd bet there might be a few.
    I'm not saying that there's a large contigent of any one nationality of mercs working for Qhadaffi.

    I'm actually saying, that I doubt there is a large contigent of mercs, at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I didn't say the SADF was working with Gadaffi, however the ANC is very very friendly with him, considering he was a big supporter of them back during the struggle, he also supported nut jobs like Idi Amin

    All in all, after the Angola Bush war, there were a **** load of highly trained, battle hardened South African soldiers who were hired out by all kinds of people to do all kinds of things.

    I wasn't suggesting there was a massive contingent of South African ex soldiers in Libya, but again, I'd bet there might be a few.
    Oh, so you're going to blame that on Bush, too? Unbelievable.

    (Just kidding, Jet. Today's threads are so scary and serious, we need a little levity right now.)

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    It's time to get involved, if we want to see democracy flourish in the ME.

    Al-Jazeera reported Monday that the Libyan air force has bombed protesters who were on their way to an army base, according to eyewitness testimony.

    The protesters were reportedly heading to the army base to obtain ammunition, but witnesses said the air force bombed the demonstrators before they could get there.

    Report: Libya air force bombs protesters heading for army base - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's time to get involved, if we want to see democracy flourish in the ME.
    Not our business. Us American's need to learn how to MYOB. We don't want the world to tell us what to do. So why should we get involved with another nation's affiars? Its hypocritical and just plain dumb. The lead protestor for Egypt said Americans do not need to get involved. That we should just let them be and that they did not need any of their help. And we should do the same with Libya.

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's time to get involved, if we want to see democracy flourish in the ME.
    What do you suggest?
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    It seems like Libya's top diplomats and military officials are starting to defect. Many of the military brass seem to no longer want to fire on protesters. Two Libyan pilots who were ordered to bomb protesters took their planes and defected to Malta. At the same time, it appears that Qadaffi doesn't have much support in his own foreign ministry. Libya's ambassador to the UN called the violence against protesters a "genocide," and the deputy ambassador to the UN openly speculated that Qadaffi doesn't have more than a couple days left.

    Yeah, I'm calling it now. It's over for Qadaffi.
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