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Thread: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

  1. #61
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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Ex South African Special Forces/Police Special Forces get hired hired all over the world for all kinds of ****.

    I mean just check this out.

    South African Police Service Special Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    .

    If you're interested check this stuff out, these guys are the real ****ing deal man.

    I doubt that very many of the SADF is working for Qhadaffi, if any. Mercs have their politics, too. Typically, they only hire out to causes they believe in.

    Qhadaffi doesn't have any reason to have a large merc force on his payroll, which is why I would like to see a source other than the media that is notorious for sensationalizing the story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I doubt that very many of the SADF is working for Qhadaffi, if any. Mercs have their politics, too. Typically, they only hire out to causes they believe in.

    Qhadaffi doesn't have any reason to have a large merc force on his payroll, which is why I would like to see a source other than the media that is notorious for sensationalizing the story.
    I didn't say the SADF was working with Gadaffi, however the ANC is very very friendly with him, considering he was a big supporter of them back during the struggle, he also supported nut jobs like Idi Amin

    All in all, after the Angola Bush war, there were a **** load of highly trained, battle hardened South African soldiers who were hired out by all kinds of people to do all kinds of things.

    I wasn't suggesting there was a massive contingent of South African ex soldiers in Libya, but again, I'd bet there might be a few.

  3. #63
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Make contact and see if they wish to have material support to aid in their uprising against Qhadaffi's government.
    Make contact with who? Qadaffi banned all political parties, so it's just a bunch of angry people in the street.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    If they refuse help, then they're obviously on their own. However, if they are willing to accept whatever support we can give them, we should give it to them.
    You mean just send a ship full of guns into Tripoli or Benghazi and start handing them out on the streets? I think Qadaffi would figure that out pretty quickly. Besides, the revolution will be over (one way or the other) long before we could get the logistics in place to actually do something like that.

    Until the protesters win, the most we can really offer them is moral/diplomatic support.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    While they are winning their liberty, we should be in the process of sculpting a support force to move in and help them get things started; a few combat troops for security, but mostly support units with the necessary equipment and skills to rebuild infrastructure, establish telephone and electricity grids, get the water running, make sure that everyone gets fed, etc.
    I wouldn't be opposed to some humanitarian/peacekeeping presence in Libya AFTER the uprising defeats Qadaffi, if the new government desired it, but our military is stretched too thin as it is to place ourselves in the middle of a potential quagmire BEFORE Qadaffi is overthrown...especially in a country that is mostly irrelevant to American interests.
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    We really need to stay out of this. If Obama again publicly backs the protesters, we're going to lose all our ME allies who have having their own domestic troubles, like Yemen, Jordan and Bair'an. We have to let these countries sort out their internal dynamics so we can work with whoever the hell is left standing.

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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Khadaffi's son said in a speech today that Libya would return to local government, tribal and municipal governments; the constitution will be rewritten and a small, less powerful national government would handle the nation's international affairs, including the sale of it's only resource, oil.
    If they actually implement something like that it would be the most radical reform response we've seen so far with these countries.
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    We really need to stay out of this. If Obama again publicly backs the protesters, we're going to lose all our ME allies who have having their own domestic troubles, like Yemen, Jordan and Bair'an. We have to let these countries sort out their internal dynamics so we can work with whoever the hell is left standing.
    I mostly agree. I think that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton should continue to urge governments to refrain from violence and to respect freedom of speech...but beyond that it's probably better to stay out of it. If we side with the protesters and the regime manages to hold onto power, it will be difficult to reestablish a relationship with them.
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    We really need to stay out of this. If Obama again publicly backs the protesters, we're going to lose all our ME allies who have having their own domestic troubles, like Yemen, Jordan and Bair'an. We have to let these countries sort out their internal dynamics so we can work with whoever the hell is left standing.
    Yeah, let's stay out of it and let the crazies roll in and take the place over...just like Afghanistan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Make contact with who? Qadaffi banned all political parties, so it's just a bunch of angry people in the street.
    Make an attempt to contact whomever is acting honcho. Help them organize.



    You mean just send a ship full of guns into Tripoli or Benghazi and start handing them out on the streets? I think Qadaffi would figure that out pretty quickly.
    That's just stupid, dude.


    Besides, the revolution will be over (one way or the other) long before we could get the logistics in place to actually do something like that.
    You don't know that.

    Until the protesters win, the most we can really offer them is moral/diplomatic support.
    You don't know they're going to win, either. All the more reason to help them.



    I wouldn't be opposed to some humanitarian/peacekeeping presence in Libya AFTER the uprising defeats Qadaffi, if the new government desired it, but our military is stretched too thin as it is to place ourselves in the middle of a potential quagmire BEFORE Qadaffi is overthrown...especially in a country that is mostly irrelevant to American interests.
    You didn't say that when you wanted to launch a massive peace keeping mission to the Ivory Coast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #69
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I mostly agree. I think that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton should continue to urge governments to refrain from violence and to respect freedom of speech...but beyond that it's probably better to stay out of it. If we side with the protesters and the regime manages to hold onto power, it will be difficult to reestablish a relationship with them.
    You say that, as if Qhadaffi is already an ally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    We really need to stay out of this. If Obama again publicly backs the protesters, we're going to lose all our ME allies who have having their own domestic troubles, like Yemen, Jordan and Bair'an. We have to let these countries sort out their internal dynamics so we can work with whoever the hell is left standing.
    Libya is different from states which have been allies/friends/clients of our's. Obama's treatment of Mubarak may have damaged our relationship with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, but Qaddafi was never an ally or friend of our's and had no great following among other Arab governments, so rough talk about this regime probably would not cause the same kind of bitterness among friendly Arab regimes Mubarak's treatment did; but the ME is not Eastern Europe, and historically revolutions if the ME have not led to more democracy or greater respect for human rights, so we should be cautious about supporting any parties or actions and restrict our statements to support for principles and processes we would like to see advanced, democracy, respect for human rights and peaceful negotiations.

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