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Thread: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

  1. #51
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    To be honest, I'm quite surprised. A massive display of violence is usually a very effective way for a horrible government like Qadaffi's to silence protesters. But maybe it was just too little, too late. The BBC is reporting that Qadaffi's son appeared on state television and admitted that the military overreacted. He also seemed to be suggesting that Libya was at risk of fragmenting into two countries, since the Qadaffis have essentially lost control of the entire eastern half of the country but maintain power in Tripoli.
    It is interesting to see where things are getting the most out of control. Libya was actually a late-comer to this wave of protests yet things look to be really poised for major change. In the Gulf states, save maybe Yemen, it seems to be more stable but North African governments are just collapsing left and right. This might be due to these governments being secular dictatorships that rely heavily on the military. So far in the monarchies there does not appear to be much risk of the governments falling.
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    It is interesting to see where things are getting the most out of control. Libya was actually a late-comer to this wave of protests yet things look to be really poised for major change.
    In Libya, several factors may have contributed to a latent buildup of pressure that was unleashed by events in Egypt and Tunisia:

    1. The Quaddafi regime barred political parties (no effective means for dissent existed)
    2. The regime barred labor strikes
    3. Traditional tribal leaders, who previously commanded significant influence, were largely rendered impotent in the state's affairs
    4. Social change lagged with Libya remaining among the most "conservative" Arab states.

    Those faultlines likely made Libya ripe for unrest. Amplifying things is a high poverty rate (nearly one-third of the population). The success of popular movements in Tunisia and Egypt almost certainly acted as the trigger in an environment that was increasingly conducive to demands for political change, especially if the success of those movements hinted that there was some prospect that Tripoli's authoritarian regime might also collapse.

    However, it remains to be seen what the outcome will be. First, the current regime is brutal and has already carried out massacres. Second, even if the regime is toppled, there is no assurance that the tribal rivalries won't reassert themselves creating new challenges for rebuilding stability.

  3. #53
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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Khadaffi's son said in a speech today that Libya would return to local government, tribal and municipal governments; the constitution will be rewritten and a small, less powerful national government would handle the nation's international affairs, including the sale of it's only resource, oil.

    Of course this was hidden inside 30 minutes of rambling warnings about the horrors that would result if the protesters continued with violence staged by outside instigators, drunks and western money, which was "paying" people to protest. It seems that Libya would be divided into a dozen baby countries, all fighting over the oil, all starving because the oil couldn't be sold, western business would leave Libya, the people will all starve, then Europe and America will come after the oil and colonize Libya all over again!

    Thing is, he may be partially right. Libya IS a tribal nation, and we've seen how well those do under a forced "democratic government."
    Last edited by DiAnna; 02-21-11 at 12:32 AM.

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Mostly other African countries. I have not seen a breakdown by country, only a reference to mercenaries from other African countries (possibly neighboring states?).
    Reports of Qhadaffi using mercenaries go back as far as '73, when he recruited Palestinian and Druze mercs. I would be interested in seeing a source aside from the media indicating that he still has a significant contigent of mercs on his payroll, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I'd bet my left testicle there's a few former SANDF guys in there.
    Why?................
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    This is Obama's cue to start working on material support for the anti-government forces.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This is Obama's cue to start working on material support for the anti-government forces.
    What exactly do you want him to do?
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What exactly do you want him to do?

    They certainly don't need to hear a speech about hope and change.

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    Re: Libyan unit "defects" as more Arab protests simmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What exactly do you want him to do?
    Make contact and see if they wish to have material support to aid in their uprising against Qhadaffi's government.

    If they refuse help, then they're obviously on their own. However, if they are willing to accept whatever support we can give them, we should give it to them.

    While they are winning their liberty, we should be in the process of sculpting a support force to move in and help them get things started; a few combat troops for security, but mostly support units with the necessary equipment and skills to rebuild infrastructure, establish telephone and electricity grids, get the water running, make sure that everyone gets fed, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hundreds of Libyans shot down

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why?................
    Ex South African Special Forces/Police Special Forces get hired hired all over the world for all kinds of ****.

    I mean just check this out.

    South African Police Service Special Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In 2004 it was reported that the SAPS STF may have lost nearly 60 percent of its active members to private companies recruiting security personnel to work in Iraq
    .

    If you're interested check this stuff out, these guys are the real ****ing deal man.


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