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Thread: House blocks funding for health care law

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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Money had to be spent to clean up the mess from the previous 12 years to prevent economic collapse. Please tell me how much per year did Republican congress in control for 12 years cut in spending per year?
    Lets see wasn't there a surplus in 1999?

    All I did was show you where your statement was at best laughable, bragging on the 1.1 trillion dollar cuts in 10 years. After raising spending by 700 billion per year. Something you either conveniently left out of your argument, or didn't take the time to think of.

    So your real statement is show me where republicans proposed a deficit of 589 billion a year for 10 years, that answer to that is the Bush years.

    Personally, I don't think that kinda of deficit spending was good under the Bush years, but guess what, I don't find it to be any better for the next ten years either.
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 02-20-11 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Okay I can agree with that, you are aware tho that right now, the top 20% pay 80% of all taxes paid?
    I am not aware of that, do you have a credible source of documentation for that?

    So you are saying that a nominal rate increase of 2 to 3 % for the top 20% of wage earners, would do?
    No, I am saying it is a step in the right direction.

    you also realize that is going to be an increase to those making between 80 and 85 thousand dollars a year right ?
    Not if we return to the Progressive tax rates before amended by Reagan.
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  3. #153
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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The people have only themselves to blame for allowing politiiicans to bribe them with the money of their fellow citizens, pitting one against the other..

    A flat tax would help alleviate this and would encourage those who make a lot of money to work longer. Right now they stop producing when they reach the high end tax bracket, and that does no one any good, either the country or their employees.
    I'm all in favor of a new tax system, be it a graduated flat tax, or a consumption tax, anything that takes the IRS out of the picture.

    I probably favor the consumption tax more then a flat tax, because it brings into the taxable money things like illegal drug money, and other ill gotten gains. Plus a consumption tax, eliminates the loopholes in our tax system.

    While I'm conservative in my views, I'm also a realist, and while I'm certainly not one for punishing the wealthy because they worked hard and are successful, I'm also aware as you get into that upper 3 or 4 percent, that you have the ability to hire tax lawyers, that others can't afford, and reduce your tax liability drastically.

    Either way, I just think our tax system is broken, and needs reworking, and if done properly, all tax rates could be reduced, and we could see a rise in revenues.

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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why do you feel everyone should be financially equal?
    I have never said that, nor do I believe that. I am talking about equality in taxation. The same reason our forefathers set up the progressive tax system. You can't continue to expect the middle class to support the wealthy.
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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post

    Personally, I don't think that kinda of deficit spending was good under the Bush years, but guess what, I don't find it to be any better for the next ten years either.
    Well, if if you are expecting the middle class to get you out of debt, I don't see it happening. They are already being squeezed under the poverty line now. The cuts being proposed by either side are not going to be enough to reduce our National debt. So, unless the progressive taxes are restored, we will just see the debt continue to grow.
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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    =Catawba;1059298358]I am not aware of that, do you have a credible source of documentation for that?
    Here is a link showing how each percentile paid
    CARPE DIEM: How Much Does Top 1% Pay of All Income Taxes?
    http://www.house.gov/jec/news/2008/July/pr110-45.pdf

    No, I am saying it is a step in the right direction.
    Here is a link that really blows holes in what you are saying about upper income rates ...

    How Much Americans Actually Pay in Taxes - NYTimes.com

    Because higher-income groups earn a disproportionate share of pretax income and because tax rates rise with income, higher-income groups also pay a disproportionate share of federal taxes. In 2006, the top quintile of households earned 55.7 percent of pretax income and paid 69.3 percent of federal taxes, while the
    top 1 percent of households earned 18.8 percent of income and paid 28.3 percent of taxes.
    by those numbers, then should the top quintile pay less in taxes?





    Not if we return to the Progressive tax rates before amended by Reagan.
    According to what you feel it proper for those in the upper quintile to pay as relative to their overall income, we have absolutely no need to return to anything close to the tax rates before Reagan, do we ?
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 02-21-11 at 12:44 AM.

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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Here is a link showing how each percentile paid
    CARPE DIEM: How Much Does Top 1% Pay of All Income Taxes?
    http://www.house.gov/jec/news/2008/July/pr110-45.pdf
    Here is a link that really blows holes in what you are saying about upper income rates ... How Much Americans Actually Pay in Taxes - NYTimes.com
    Because higher-income groups earn a disproportionate share of pretax income and because tax rates rise with income, higher-income groups also pay a disproportionate share of federal taxes. In 2006, the top quintile of households earned 55.7 percent of pretax income and paid 69.3 percent of federal taxes, while the
    by those numbers, then should the top quintile pay less in taxes?
    According to what you feel it proper for those in the upper quintile to pay as relative to their overall income, we have absolutely no need to return to anything close to the tax rates before Reagan, do we ?
    I would go along with that if we eliminate all the loopholes that allow the wealthy to not include all their income as taxable. Sure! Here is the problem with our system as it currently stands:

    "A remarkable study (Norton & Ariely, 2010) reveals that Americans have no idea that the wealth distribution (defined for them in terms of "net worth") is as concentrated as it is. When shown three pie charts representing possible wealth distributions, 90% or more of the 5,522 respondents -- whatever their gender, age, income level, or party affiliation -- thought that the American wealth distribution most resembled one in which the top 20% has about 60% of the wealth. In fact, of course, the top 20% control about 85% of the wealth"

    "The ratio of CEO pay to factory worker pay rose from 42:1 in 1960 to as high as 531:1 in 2000"

    "Most amazing of all, the top 0.1% -- that's one-tenth of one percent -- had more combined pre-tax income than the poorest 120 million people (Johnston, 2006)."

    "Furthermore, if the top 20% have 84% of the wealth (and recall that 10% have 85% to 90% of the stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity), that means that the United States is a power pyramid. It's tough for the bottom 80% -- maybe even the bottom 90% -- to get organized and exercise much power."

    "only 39 of the 134 countries have worse income inequality."

    Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I would go along with that if we eliminate all the loopholes that allow the wealthy to not include all their income as taxable. Sure! Here is the problem with our system as it currently stands:

    "A remarkable study (Norton & Ariely, 2010) reveals that Americans have no idea that the wealth distribution (defined for them in terms of "net worth") is as concentrated as it is. When shown three pie charts representing possible wealth distributions, 90% or more of the 5,522 respondents -- whatever their gender, age, income level, or party affiliation -- thought that the American wealth distribution most resembled one in which the top 20% has about 60% of the wealth. In fact, of course, the top 20% control about 85% of the wealth"

    "The ratio of CEO pay to factory worker pay rose from 42:1 in 1960 to as high as 531:1 in 2000"

    "Most amazing of all, the top 0.1% -- that's one-tenth of one percent -- had more combined pre-tax income than the poorest 120 million people (Johnston, 2006)."

    "Furthermore, if the top 20% have 84% of the wealth (and recall that 10% have 85% to 90% of the stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity), that means that the United States is a power pyramid. It's tough for the bottom 80% -- maybe even the bottom 90% -- to get organized and exercise much power."

    "only 39 of the 134 countries have worse income inequality."

    Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power
    Just shakes head … . there is not sense in debating anything with you, what you want is a 90% top tax rate and nothing else will do .. I don't see why you don't just admit that and be done with it, facts and figures don't back up what you want them to and you will try to skirt that single issue, by showing what people think ??

    you stated you want them to pay an equal portion of taxes as they have income, I've shown you where they do that and more. Deductions be damned, has nothing to do with what they “paid” in taxes.

    It's the same with wages, the first line on any income tax form is wages from your w2, that is your income.

    Taxes paid for the year, are what you paid in in taxes minus your return. Pretty simple .

    I've just shown you where they pay more by percentage of over all taxes, then they earn in percentage of income.

    Now simply put, is that fair or not ??

    Back a few posts ago, that is what you wanted, should I get that post for you ?

    You can sit there an spin it any way you want, but you can't change the facts.

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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Please explain how you arrived at that?
    Ok, I'm wrong. But it's still out of whack. Those with higher incomes, pay a larger percentage of total tax than those with lower incomes:

    The data shows the progressive tax structure of the U.S. federal income tax system on individuals that reduces the tax incidence of people with smaller incomes, as they shift the incidence disproportionately to those with higher incomes - the top 0.1% of taxpayers by income pay 17.4% of federal income taxes (earning 9.1% of the income), the top 1% with gross income of $328,049 or more pay 36.9% (earning 19%), the top 5% with gross income of $137,056 or more pay 57.1% (earning 33.4%), and the bottom 50% with gross income of $30,122 or less pay 3.3% (earning 13.4%).

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    Re: House blocks funding for health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Just shakes head … . there is not sense in debating anything with you, what you want is a 90% top tax rate and nothing else will do .. I don't see why you don't just admit that and be done with it, facts and figures don't back up what you want them to and you will try to skirt that single issue, by showing what people think ??
    It was actually closer to 80% for the top tax bracket most of the period, but yes! I've been saying all along that I think we should return to the progressive tax system that served us so well for 50 years by giving us the strongest middle class in history, while keeping the debt at manageable levels.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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