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Thread: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

  1. #561
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    As for unions, imperfect institutions, can you recall your history. What were working conditions like before unions? I would not be too egar to return to a time in which workers have less voice. Why conservatives tend to defend the wealthy and demonize the worker I don't understand. how they can do this and keep any votes from workers is even less understandable. But remember, things tend to swing back and forth, and otfen the worse thing that happen is to get what you ask for.
    You misread me Boo. Although that's understandable from the position I reflect. I used to be a union member back in the 60s after I got out of the servce. I saw both good and bad and the theory of unions is good. Unfortunately we failed as a people to control the growth and influence of them from being a representative for workers' right in labor-management relations to a political force to be catered to by politicians. That corrruptive influence should never have been legally allowed to happen. Then, like politicians they lusted for the insatiable, more and more power and influence and rather than represent their members they used them. And the rest is a history of corruption and the pervasive what's in it for me attitude. Unions have become their own worst enemy, especially in the public sector. Obama's whoring to the unions in hard times will take it's toll way beyond political affiliations of the citizen. When a father comes home and looks at his kids sleeping and wonders why he couldn't do better by them and sees the abuses in wages and benefits laid on the taxpayers back by unions he thinks I'll get my revenge at the ballot box. Beware...the Silent Majority is coming back and they're pissed-off again.

    You ask why conservatives defend the wealthy. We believe in the true promise of America and I keep repeating it on forums I post to, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. That promise was for Equality of Opportunity, NOT a Guarantee of Equality of Outcome. That's your basic difference in economics between the left and right. The wealthy either inherited their wealth, in which case it's nobody's business or concern OR they went out and through investment, hard work and/or risk-taking THEY EARNED IT, in which case it's still nobody else's business. If you believe like your Great Leader in "redistribution of the wealth" you're a socialist. Socialism always fails in the end because it creates a sick society with no inspiration for betterment only for survival and when it runs out of other peoples' money it collapses in upon itself. All I ask is that you (the liberal progressives) be forthright if you believe in socialism and summon up the courage to ADMIT IT! If you believe as Obama appears to, that goverment...the state, should control the means of production of goods and services you're a refined socialist know as a Marxist. All fall under the umbrella of the type of state that shelters such, a Communist one.
    "Ignorance confuses. Knowledge mediates. Truth resolves." (doctorhugo)

  2. #562
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why conservatives tend to defend the wealthy and demonize the worker I don't understand.
    LOL!

    you sure don't

    FT.com / US / Economy & Fed - US public pensions face $2,500bn shortfall

    "the taxpayer" is not "the wealthy"

    you really should stop demonizing both of em

    how they can do this and keep any votes from workers is even less understandable
    it appears there's much you don't understand

    but the world goes on around you anyway

    But remember, things tend to swing back and forth, and otfen (sic) the worse (sic) thing that happen (sic) is to get what you ask for.
    isn't that a song?

    you sure messed it up

  3. #563
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Workers are starting to strategize for what is going to be done in the event that this passes. There is word of a public sector general strike, although I don't know how seriously it is being discussed. Workers are starting to correctly reject conceding on cuts as well, which means that people here are talking and engaging in debate and developing an idea of what is actually going on here. Solidarity demonstrations are being held all across the country. If Wisconsin workers succeed in their struggle against the union busting in WI, this could be the start of a resurgence of labor struggles throughout the country, something that has been lacking for the past 30-40 years.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If Wisconsin workers succeed in their struggle against the union busting in WI, this could be the start of a resurgence of labor struggles throughout the country, something that has been lacking for the past 30-40 years.
    I'm not sure that will be the case. The headwinds from a looming long era of austerity will grow increasingly severe, especially if meaningful progress toward addressing the nation's long-term imbalances continues to be put off. Minimizing job losses and benefit reductions will take precedence over job expansion/benefit increases. Neither the private nor public sectors will escape the consequences of fiscal consolidation (reduced services, reduced expenditures, reduced aggregate demand meaning slower revenue growth, higher structural unemployment rate, reduced investment that could flatten long-term economic and productivity growth , etc.).

    In terms of Wisconsin, what might appear puzzling on the surface is why Governor Walker is seeking to strip collective bargaining authority when he could achieve exactly the same substantive outcome by enacting legislation empowering the state only to negotiate/agree solely over salaries and put in place a supermajority requirement for expanding such authority. That way, the unions would, in theory, retain all of their collective bargaining authority. However, the state would not be able to accommodate those additional issues due to a lack of legal authority to do so.

    It seems to me that he has chosen to pursue an approach that makes it more difficult for him to achieve his fiscal objectives. That is rational only if he seeks benefits from the unnecessary part of the legislation. I suspect that he does. I believe that the Governor's approach likely is not just about fiscal consolidation, but also has a lot to do with the psychological desire to demonstrate power. He may well believe that if he successfully flexes his political muscles early on, he will have greater leverage when it comes to future decision making. Otherwise, his approach makes little sense since he could accomplish the same substantive objectives without touching the unions' collective bargaining authority.

  5. #565
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Workers are starting to strategize for what is going to be done in the event that this passes. There is word of a public sector general strike, although I don't know how seriously it is being discussed. Workers are starting to correctly reject conceding on cuts as well, which means that people here are talking and engaging in debate and developing an idea of what is actually going on here. Solidarity demonstrations are being held all across the country. If Wisconsin workers succeed in their struggle against the union busting in WI, this could be the start of a resurgence of labor struggles throughout the country, something that has been lacking for the past 30-40 years.
    An illegal strike will put their jobs at risk and they can be fired. Either way, there is no "win" for the unions in Wisconsin.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    you have to ask?

    LOL!
    Yep. I think it's BS.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    who cares what you think

    you think that a woman who pays into social security her whole career and gets ripped off her entire investment cuz she died a few months too soon warrants a

    and her granddaughter with downs syndrome can just go to the village

    LOL!

  8. #568
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    who cares what you think

    you think that a woman who pays into social security her whole career and gets ripped off her entire investment cuz she died a few months too soon warrants a

    and her granddaughter with downs syndrome can just go to the village

    LOL!
    The Village is a nice place, and might have done well to be at such a place before she died. That siad, like always, you really don't comprehen any thing argued. So, I'm moving on. :bye:

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    And I will point out again, as I'm not sure how far back you've read Mr V., but a lot of this is about favoritsm. The public safety unions, the same who supported walker in his election, go untouched while Walker touts fiscal responsibility and "everyone has to give" rhetoric.
    That was actually rated as untrue by politifact. While Walker did pick up the endorsement of the Milwaukee unions, the statewide unions (which are bigger with more members) actually supported Walker's opponent.

    http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...cott-walker-a/

    Walker didn’t get the endorsements of two statewide unions, the Wisconsin Professional Police Association and the Professional Fire Fighters of Wisconsin, which both backed Barrett.

    For the record, the governor told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the charge that he was exempting police and firefighters was "ridiculous." He said he didn't recommend changing the rules for police officers and firefighters because he didn’t want public safety work disrupted.

    We then contacted the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, the statewide union that endorsed Walker's opponent last year. Executive director Jim Palmer said the statewide organization is much larger than the local Milwaukee police union that endorsed Walker. The state group has approximately 11,000 members versus Milwaukee’s roughly 1,400, he said.

    Similarly, the state firefighters association has more than 3,000, compared with the Milwaukee union’s 875.
    And this is the reason I long suspected he exempted the public safety unions:

    Palmer said he believes that Walker exempted police and firefighters not for political payback, but because they are the public workers who are most popular with the public. "And in that way, it’s very political," he said.
    Last edited by buck; 02-23-11 at 01:22 PM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    not enough

    too late

    wisconsin is gonna write FUNDAMENTAL REFORM

    and it's gonna spread far and wide

    deal with it
    Having your arms and legs severed off would not be fundamental reform.
    It would be radical amputation of vital limbs that serve a valuable purpose.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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