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Thread: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    So I can answer you more effectively what exactly do you mean? What are you saying he should have stated?
    The fiscal situation... and the direness of it.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Midlib,

    Yes i'm sure the kids are loving it. Thats not my point. Fact is and correct me if i'm wrong these "sick out" teachers will be paid both sick days and extra for the make up days they caused? No?


    All of this over having to contribute 5.8% to thier own pension?

    Democrats are acting like cowards here and the unions like the taliban. This is anything but the democratic process and simple mob rule attempts..... All while scumbag union bosses and thier loser cronies lose nothing over this whole mess...
    Honestly, no, I'm not a fan paying teachers to fake being sick. I do however believe that in any line of work people make up BS reasons not to go to work all the time. This is at least a good reason in my eyes. We aren't going to agree on that plain and simple. The other thing you mention is the teachers having to pay in out of their own pockets 5.8% I would be willing to put a sizeable amount of money on this being over almost immediately if Walker allowed the unions to do this. The problem for many is that this is not an option. This bill dissolves ALL unions and as such makes this a one time negotiation totally in favor or Walker. If collective bargaining were left in place as is, and all that had to happen is an increase in out of pocket spending for benefits and this thing would be over as quickly as it started

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Gapeach View Post
    I don't believe their "livelihoods" are being threatened. I think their cushy lifestyles are being reconsidered. They are paid not to work (summertime), vacations, federal holidays...They get paid and have their benefits paid for them..by TAXPAYERS. The US is out of money..which in turns means the STATES are broke. No one can afford to pay these people all these benefits and try to balance a budget. Everyones got to give some to get some.
    Cushy lifestyle? You clearly have never been, lived with, or talked extensively to an educator in Wisconsin. It's true that they are paid not to work during the summertime. It's also equally, if not more, true that educators DON'T get paid for much of the work they do. Ever try to grade 35 advanced composition papers inside of a 40 hour work week?

    They get paid by the taxpayer you say. Would you prefer the rate get dropped to minimum wage? That would really help our educational system, which is already flourishing SO much compared to much of the modern world. Should education of our children NOT be a top priority?

    You say the states are broke. Again, we agree. But this is a blatant attempt to crush unions, not balance the budget. Unions are willing to pay this increase, just don't take away collective bargaining.

    You say everyones got to give some to get some. How then do you explain that public safety unions (police, state troopers, and fire department) are exempt? They certainly are not "giving some"

    All in all you seem fairly clueless about the whole situation when there is a plethora of reliable information available moments away.
    Hyperbole is seldom truthful.

  4. #224
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    It's a delaying tactic. Nothing more.
    It is a delaying tactic, but not a tactic to defer the inevitable. The delay is bringing awareness to the issue. The governor tried to ramrod this through with attention. Now it has attention.... whatever happens after is fair game.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Midlib,

    Yes i'm sure the kids are loving it. Thats not my point. Fact is and correct me if i'm wrong these "sick out" teachers will be paid both sick days and extra for the make up days they caused? No?


    All of this over having to contribute 5.8% to thier own pension?

    Democrats are acting like cowards here and the unions like the taliban. This is anything but the democratic process and simple mob rule attempts..... All while scumbag union bosses and thier loser cronies lose nothing over this whole mess...
    Midwest Lib has pointed it out already but the crux of the issue with what Governor Walker is doing is not the necessity for members of the teachers union to increase the amount they would pay into their pensions, but rather that he is trying to restrict their collective bargaining rights in future negotiations. In fact the teachers' union was more than willing to reform their pension plans to save Wisconsin from having to layoff teachers. It all goes back to Governor Walker's desire to strip them of their bargaining rights.

    Add to it that he has exempted unions such as the police, firefighters, and state troopers, all supporters of his during the past election, and it's looking more and more like political retribution than trying to save the state money. If things were as dire as the governor is claiming, then no union should be excluded during this time. Surely you can agree with that.

    As a New Jersey resident I'm sure you can sure answer this. When Governor Christie was battling the problem of state pensions did he move to roll back a union's collective bargaining rights? I have followed what he is doing, very impressive indeed, but to my knowledge he did not take it that far. Please let me know if I'm wrong.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The fiscal situation... and the direness of it.
    Well he has without question told the residents of WI how dire the fiscal situation is. He however appears to not be taking responsibility for it, instead exempting supporting unions. If the situation is as dire as it is, all must take a cut.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    Well he has without question told the residents of WI how dire the fiscal situation is. He however appears to not be taking responsibility for it, instead exempting supporting unions. If the situation is as dire as it is, all must take a cut.
    Agreed 100%! Unfortunately with the bite size media that most people ingest, most people never GET to the crux of an issue. I am just very thankful that my statesmen are putting up the fight that they are.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Hitler, Bush, teacher worship, and class warfare. And that's just the first page!
    Don't ya just love DP? A microcosm of the problems of the country as a whole...
    Last edited by ludahai; 02-18-11 at 09:07 PM. Reason: typo
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Just a small FYI for all. The unions don't have as much power as some would have you believe.

    What is the QEO? | Collective Bargaining | Wisconsin Education Association Council

    Text from above link

    "The Wisconsin Legislature enacted the Qualified Economic Offer (QEO) law in 1993. The QEO law - and the revenue controls that restrict the amount of money school districts can raise - were enacted in order to limit school spending. Those measures were combined with a commitment that the state would provide two-thirds of the costs of schools on a statewide average (this figure varies by community).

    Under the QEO, school boards have the option of unilaterally limiting pay and benefits for K-12 teachers so long as the combined increase is 3.8%. The law allows school districts to avoid true collective bargaining regarding compensation and important school quality issues.

    As rising health insurance costs have eaten up most of the 3.8% total compensation target, teacher salaries in Wisconsin have stagnated and even declined. As a result, Wisconsin teacher salaries fell 6.8% from 1997-98 to 2007-08, when adjusted for inflation. For 2007-08, Wisconsin's teacher salaries ranked 21th in the nation at $49,051, down from 20th the year before, and below the national average of $52,308."

    As you see, this law actually limits the power of unions. I think we can all agree a balance of power is a good thing.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman_Spiff View Post
    Midwest Lib has pointed it out already but the crux of the issue with what Governor Walker is doing is not the necessity for members of the teachers union to increase the amount they would pay into their pensions, but rather that he is trying to restrict their collective bargaining rights in future negotiations. In fact the teachers' union was more than willing to reform their pension plans to save Wisconsin from having to layoff teachers. It all goes back to Governor Walker's desire to strip them of their bargaining rights.

    Add to it that he has exempted unions such as the police, firefighters, and state troopers, all supporters of his during the past election, and it's looking more and more like political retribution than trying to save the state money. If things were as dire as the governor is claiming, then no union should be excluded during this time. Surely you can agree with that.

    As a New Jersey resident I'm sure you can sure answer this. When Governor Christie was battling the problem of state pensions did he move to roll back a union's collective bargaining rights? I have followed what he is doing, very impressive indeed, but to my knowledge he did not take it that far. Please let me know if I'm wrong.


    I think its a different situation. Ill get back to it after the weekend... I tend to be very spotty on weekends. Remibd me if i dont address by monday.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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