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Thread: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Dems did it in Texas years ago.
    Yep, such is the liberal way. Turn tail and run like sissies on the playground.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Here is my take on all of this:

    1) In a time of budget shortfalls, cuts have to be made, and yes, there is going to be misery.

    2) Having said that, unions did have their place at one time. Don't forget that it was unions that got child labor banned. Under unions, living on company property where you paid exorbitant rates for rent, and having a company store that charged twice as much, became extinct. Safety in the workplace? That's unions too. The right to negotiate without being shot down by Pinkertons? Again, unions. The unions did a lot of good things to improve the standard of living for workers.

    3) However, once unions got power, their priorities got all screwed up. I can testify to this first hand. While still living in Michigan, I worked at Lear-Siegler, troubleshooting and repairing AYN-1 and DC-130 navigational computers. I was also in the UAW. I had no choice. I was required to join. BTW, the UAW isn't just automobiles. It stands for United Auto, Aerospace, and Agricultural implement Workers. That's a mouthful. LOL. Anyways, one day, I am sitting on my ass because a piece of test equipment that I needed was not at my station. Guess what I did? I went to another station, which was being unused at the time, got what I needed, and proceeded to do my job. I was fined $50.00 for that. Why? Because I was supposed to call a test equipment calibrator to take out the screws holding the piece of test equipment at the other station, then call a lugger, who would bring it to my station. Still, I could not use it until I had called a test equipment calibrator to screw in into my rack. This process can take more than a day. In the meantime, I would just be sitting on my ass. This isn't right, folks.

    So, while unions had their day, and I believe that in many situations they still do, they are so screwed up with the bureaucracy and power monkeys that are on their backs. Until they do something about this, then it is no wonder that many Americans dislike them. Still, unions are an important aspect of leveraging workers' abilities in order to gain them a decent living. As Adam Smith once said, resources are there to exploit. This also applies to workers, who can use this same principle to exploit the sweat of their brows. They just need to do it better than they are doing it now. There is only one entity in the world that has become more cumbersome and resource-wasting than unions, and that is

    ... the Government

    In the memory of "The Music Man", sing it with me......

    With a capital G that rhymes with B that stands for Bloodsuckers.
    Last edited by danarhea; 02-18-11 at 06:42 PM.
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Here is my take on all of this:

    1) In a time of budget shortfalls, cuts have to be made, and yes, there is going to be misery.

    2) Having said that, unions did have their place at one time. Don't forget that it was unions that got child labor banned. Under unions, living on company property where you paid exorbitant rates for rent, and having a company store that charged twice as much, became extinct. Safety in the workplace? That's unions too. The right to negotiate without being shot down by Pinkertons? Again, unions. The unions did a lot of good things to improve the standard of living for workers.

    3) However, once unions got power, their priorities got all screwed up. I can testify to this first hand. While still living in Michigan, I worked at Lear-Siegler, troubleshooting and repairing AYN-1 and DC-130 navigational computers. I was also in the UAW. I had no choice. I was required to join. BTW, the UAW isn't just automobiles. It stands for United Auto, Aerospace, and Agricultural implement Workers. That's a mouthful. LOL. Anyways, one day, I am sitting on my ass because a piece of test equipment that I needed was not at my station. Guess what I did? I went to another station, which was being unused at the time, got what I needed, and proceeded to do my job. I was fined $50.00 for that. Why? Because I was supposed to call a test equipment calibrator to take out the screws holding the piece of test equipment at the other station, then call a lugger, who would bring it to my station. Still, I could not use it until I had called a test equipment calibrator to screw in into my rack. This process can take more than a day. In the meantime, I would just be sitting on my ass. This isn't right, folks.

    So, while unions had their day, and I believe that in many situations they still do, they are so screwed up with the bureaucracy and power monkeys that are on their backs. Until they do something about this, then it is no wonder that many Americans dislike them. Still, unions are an important aspect of leveraging workers' abilities in order to gain them a decent living. As Adam Smith once said, resources are there to exploit. This also applies to workers, who can use this same principle to exploit the sweat of their brows. They just need to do it better than they are doing it now. There is only one entity in the world that has become more cumbersome and resource-wasting than unions, and that is

    ... the Government

    In the memory of "The Music Man", sing it with me......

    With a capital G that rhymes with B that stands for Bloodsucker.
    We shouldn't forget to put the blame where it belongs: squarely on the shoulders of those bargaining with the unions who gave away the store. Unions can demand. Powers that be can say no. Our legislators sold us out. And now they're going to fix the problem??
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Here is my take on all of this:

    1) In a time of budget shortfalls, cuts have to be made, and yes, there is going to be misery.

    2) Having said that, unions did have their place at one time. Don't forget that it was unions that got child labor banned. Under unions, living on company property where you paid exorbitant rates for rent, and having a company store that charged twice as much, became extinct. Safety in the workplace? That's unions too. The right to negotiate without being shot down by Pinkertons? Again, unions. The unions did a lot of good things to improve the standard of living for workers.

    3) However, once unions got power, their priorities got all screwed up. I can testify to this first hand. While still living in Michigan, I worked at Lear-Siegler, troubleshooting and repairing AYN-1 and DC-130 navigational computers. I was also in the UAW. I had no choice. I was required to join. BTW, the UAW isn't just automobiles. It stands for United Auto, Aerospace, and Agricultural implement Workers. That's a mouthful. LOL. Anyways, one day, I am sitting on my ass because a piece of test equipment that I needed was not at my station. Guess what I did? I went to another station, which was being unused at the time, got what I needed, and proceeded to do my job. I was fined $50.00 for that. Why? Because I was supposed to call a test equipment calibrator to take out the screws holding the piece of test equipment at the other station, then call a lugger, who would bring it to my station. Still, I could not use it until I had called a test equipment calibrator to screw in into my rack. This process can take more than a day. In the meantime, I would just be sitting on my ass. This isn't right, folks.

    So, while unions had their day, and I believe that in many situations they still do, they are so screwed up with the bureaucracy and power monkeys that are on their backs. Until they do something about this, then it is no wonder that many Americans dislike them. Still, unions are an important aspect of leveraging workers' abilities in order to gain them a decent living. As Adam Smith once said, resources are there to exploit. This also applies to workers, who can use this same principle to exploit the sweat of their brows. They just need to do it better than they are doing it now. There is only one entity in the world that has become more cumbersome and resource-wasting than unions, and that is

    ... the Government

    In the memory of "The Music Man", sing it with me......

    With a capital G that rhymes with B that stands for Bloodsuckers.
    To do work in Chicago or Boston, my company has to pay a union worker $100 an hour to sit on a bucket and watch us do the work. We can't hire them to actually DO the work, because they won't work for us. But we have to have them there in order to do the work ourselves.

    Is this what unions were originally intended for?

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Face it. The gig is up. Liberalism has failed, much like multiculturalism in Europe.

    There is nowhere left to turn, no other vault to steal from. Socialism fails when you run out of other people's money to spend.

    Huge cuts are unavoidable now. You've got to make your own way now, not rely on the government teet.

    The money's run dry. The national debt is monstrously huge. There is no way out. The gig is up.

    Time to suck it up, go to work, and handle things by yourself. I know that hurts.
    So you find these cuts to be a necessity. I can only imagine your outrage then, that Walker would keep public safety unions in tact, and in fact, keep them untouched entirely. Unions are killing the Wisconsin economy so off with all their heads yes? (btw, yes is the only answer you can give while not being 100%) hypocritical. I address this question directly to Erod, but would love to have ANY person who supports the bill give an answer as well.
    Last edited by Midwest Lib; 02-18-11 at 06:56 PM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    They look like thugs to me....





    I guess they didn't get the memo to tone the rhetoric down.
    Why oh why, do we have to CONTINUE to go down this road. It's just terrible logic. Let's find 2 pictures of nutjobs up to support our point, all the while adding nothing of importance to the conversation. You say they are thugs, fine, find a reason, source it and put it here. I understand though that it takes a little longer to find data and facts than going to google images and finding a picture of a couple whack jobs to link an entire party to, but in the end I guarantee it would certainly command more respect from both sides of the aisle.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    So you find these cuts to be a necessity. I can only imagine your outrage then, that Walker would just to keep public safety unions in tact, and in fact untouched entirely. Unions are killing the Wisconsin economy so off with all their heads yes? (btw, yes is the only answer you can give while not being 100%) hypocritical. I address this question directly to Erod, but would love to have ANY person who supports the bill give an answer as well.
    I am for the dissolution of all of today's unions, yes.

    Unions served their purposes well once upon a time, but have since entirely lost their way.

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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    Why oh why, do we have to CONTINUE to go down this road. It's just terrible logic. Let's find 2 pictures of nutjobs up to support our point, all the while adding nothing of importance to the conversation. You say they are thugs, fine, find a reason, source it and put it here. I understand though that it takes a little longer to find data and facts than going to google images and finding a picture of a couple whack jobs to link an entire party to, but in the end I guarantee it would certainly command more respect from both sides of the aisle.
    Great: One of the Most Violent Union Thugs Now Appearing With Thug Teachers in Wisconsin - Publius Forum

    MADISON, Wis. (AP) - Police have hand-cuffed a protester at the state Capitol after he apparently tried to charge into the state Assembly.
    Police Hand-Cuff Protester in Madison
    What else do these people need to do to be labeled thugs....kill someone..oh wait.
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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Here is my take on all of this:

    1) In a time of budget shortfalls, cuts have to be made, and yes, there is going to be misery.

    2) Having said that, unions did have their place at one time. Don't forget that it was unions that got child labor banned. Under unions, living on company property where you paid exorbitant rates for rent, and having a company store that charged twice as much, became extinct. Safety in the workplace? That's unions too. The right to negotiate without being shot down by Pinkertons? Again, unions. The unions did a lot of good things to improve the standard of living for workers.

    3) However, once unions got power, their priorities got all screwed up. I can testify to this first hand. While still living in Michigan, I worked at Lear-Siegler, troubleshooting and repairing AYN-1 and DC-130 navigational computers. I was also in the UAW. I had no choice. I was required to join. BTW, the UAW isn't just automobiles. It stands for United Auto, Aerospace, and Agricultural implement Workers. That's a mouthful. LOL. Anyways, one day, I am sitting on my ass because a piece of test equipment that I needed was not at my station. Guess what I did? I went to another station, which was being unused at the time, got what I needed, and proceeded to do my job. I was fined $50.00 for that. Why? Because I was supposed to call a test equipment calibrator to take out the screws holding the piece of test equipment at the other station, then call a lugger, who would bring it to my station. Still, I could not use it until I had called a test equipment calibrator to screw in into my rack. This process can take more than a day. In the meantime, I would just be sitting on my ass. This isn't right, folks.

    So, while unions had their day, and I believe that in many situations they still do, they are so screwed up with the bureaucracy and power monkeys that are on their backs. Until they do something about this, then it is no wonder that many Americans dislike them. Still, unions are an important aspect of leveraging workers' abilities in order to gain them a decent living. As Adam Smith once said, resources are there to exploit. This also applies to workers, who can use this same principle to exploit the sweat of their brows. They just need to do it better than they are doing it now. There is only one entity in the world that has become more cumbersome and resource-wasting than unions, and that is

    ... the Government

    In the memory of "The Music Man", sing it with me......

    With a capital G that rhymes with B that stands for Bloodsuckers.
    Same where I work now. Can't carry a box larger than 12x12x12 no matter the weight, as a ticket has to be opened for a union person to come and pick it up with a hand truck. A hydraulic, powered hand truck! I cannot move a table in a conference room (chairs are okay though), as I have to again, open a ticket and have someone hours later, come up and move a table. I cannot change a light bulb. I work in a test lab 50% of the time --- even racking equipment, plugging it in that has to be done by a union represented person who, in my 21 years of experience, doesn't know what the hell they're doing. I had a ticket in to run fiber jumpers to from one end of building to the other with 2 media converters - that ticket was open for 30 days. When I finally complained, the property management guy who retired after 35 years and now just does this part time to keep busy said, the two techs who were supposed to do the work have been playing video games for the past two weeks or have not been available. My ticket was the only ticket open at that time and they just don't give a ****. So the retiree and I, after 5 pm on night, did the work in 2 hours. If I would have gotten caught doing any of these things, I would also get fined and I would be written up and put on an improvement plan as well as take some bs training course on why these rules exist. I used to be a frigging Shop Steward for Christ sakes at the CWA Trenton Local 1000 - it's not like I don't know what's going on.

    The BS has to stop.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    I am for the dissolution of all of today's unions, yes.

    Unions served their purposes well once upon a time, but have since entirely lost their way.
    Well, we disagree fundamentally but I appreciate your consistency.
    My next question builds on the situation at hand: Do you (or anyone) have a problem with the way that it's being approached? Public safety unions, which you oppose, are left out of a VERY controversial bill. This same group as a union supported Walkers election. This screams favoritism to me and proves beyond a doubt that the governor does not truly believe his own rhetoric. If he really thought that collective bargaining were the nail in our fiscal coffin, he would have NO choice but to include these unions.

    So, please, tell me if you are ok with the way that the governor is approaching the bill. Do you believe that it is NOT an attack on the unions, but instead an actual way to balance the budget?

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