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Thread: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    Really? Your trucking business builds its own roads? Well good for you.
    No, but my trucking business pays around $6,000 a year in fees and taxes, that are supposed to go toward road maintanance and construction. So, don't give me that crap about how I'm getting, "subsidies", from the government.

    You shouldn't try to hornswaggle people into believing that those roads are pay for with anything other than tax dollars.

    Ever hear of, "heavy road use taxes"?

    How much in fees and taxes is this piece-a-**** high speed rail going to pay into the government?
    Last edited by apdst; 02-16-11 at 09:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You shouldn't try to hornswaggle people into believing that those roads are pay for with anything other than tax dollars.
    Of course roads are paid for with tax dollars. Like sales taxes, property taxes, the general fund and other non-user based fees. People who don't own cars subsidize your road, just like people who don't take the train pay for upkeep of tracks.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    Of course roads are paid for with tax dollars. Like sales taxes, property taxes, the general fund and other non-user based fees. People who don't own cars subsidize your road, just like people who don't take the train pay for upkeep of tracks.
    Well, I'm glad you agree that transportation isn't subsidized by the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    I feel it necessary to point out that each and every "subsidy" was at one point a tax.


    The government does not subsidize anything. The taxpayers do, albeit through the vehicle of government.


    Which is damned overloaded atm.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I see you're from New Jersey. And not from Florida. Why don't you first come down here and actually live in Florida for a while before you exalt how great it is that people spread so far apart in this state can't get around to other parts before you celebrate that fact because of the principle of the matter?
    I'm just enamored that a politician is giving money back to the Fed. That's like finding out Bigfoot is not only real, but is CPA living in Orange County Oregon and grows his own hybrid pot.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    How much in fees and taxes is this piece-a-**** high speed rail going to pay into the government?
    Possibly the remainder of a $55-$110 ticket from SF to LA after operation costs are removed from the ticket price. In the French nationwide HSR system, this translates to $1.75 billion annually.

    Possibly nothing. Siemens, Alstrom and JR East indicated a willingness to fund the final $280M of the project (the state's share) and to cover operations and construction risks in exchange for operating the line and retaining all profits from it. But a certain governor didn't like that idea and cancelled the whole project before the official PPP bids could be accepted.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I'm just enamored that a politician is giving money back to the Fed. That's like finding out Bigfoot is not only real, but is CPA living in Orange County Oregon and grows his own hybrid pot.
    New Jersey? Didn't Christie do the same thing and Kesich in Ohio?
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    Possibly the remainder of a $55-$110 ticket from SF to LA after operation costs are removed from the ticket price. In the French nationwide HSR system, this translates to $1.75 billion annually.

    Possibly nothing. Siemens, Alstrom and JR East indicated a willingness to fund the final $280M of the project (the state's share) and to cover operations and construction risks in exchange for operating the line and retaining all profits from it. But a certain governor didn't like that idea and cancelled the whole project before the official PPP bids could be accepted.
    Annnnnd, where does the rest of it come from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's irrelevant, because the government can't create jobs.
    Maybe, the best justification for this line of thinking I have seen so far is because that money is taxed, which is poor justification. Taxation is a form of payment, just like any other form of payment. If not, please tell me the difference.

    There is no difference, because both orginate in the private sector. Again, the government can't make money. They can only take money--in the form of taxes--from the private sector.
    Only the fed and banks can make money, due to fractional reserve lending (and the fed's printing press). A private customer can only take money --in the form of payments-- from the private sector. What is the fundamental difference here?

    Typically the process of creating value goes like this. You take a raw material (in the government's case, unused land), you apply a process to it which adds value (paving land), than you have more value. Now that increased value is either sold (hopefully at a profit) or it is used (such as the case of roads). For example, the plant I work in has a machine shop, they take raw metal blocks and make machine or structural parts for the equipment or property. This is not sold, but it is used and does add value (especially in cases where this new thing augments the function of the property or equipment) whether by increasing function or replacing a deteriorating part. A road is no different than one of these machine parts.

    Now, I happily await your rebuttal to this point. So far you have managed to call me stupid and repeat a mantra without providing any reasoning behind it. Hopefully you will be able to do better in future posts.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 02-16-11 at 09:59 PM.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    New Jersey? Didn't Christie do the same thing and Kesich in Ohio?
    Well, sorta. Christie just said no to the NJ/NY plan, because NJ wouldn't be able to hold up it's end of the costs. Kesich I'm not sure... not familiar with what happened there.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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