Page 7 of 38 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 379

Thread: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

  1. #61
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Again, those aren't high speed trains. As they get more connected, they get used more, and more profitable (while prices drop simultaneously).
    Is there any example of high speed trains in the U.S. that are profitable?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Airlines, for the most part, are not profitable either.... I would rather subsidize a high speed train than an airline.
    Based on what factors?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Are you telling me you wouldn't ride a high speed rail to L.A. if you had to make a trip and it was available?
    I would out of curiousity but not out of necessity. I'd fly.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #62
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,584

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Neither are airlines.

    The Airline Industry


    It's funny that you say we don't do trains like Europeans... we don't have them. One might think, "hey, no **** Sherlock." The more trains in operation and the wider area covered, the more likely they are to be used. Plus they are far better for the environment and use less energy than flying a jet full of people. I know conservatives, like religions, are opposed to change, but don't make us drag you kicking and screaming on everything, okay?

    Some change is good. You can accept it.

    *Edit: Here's some more stuff about high speed rails and airlines for you

    Spain's High-Speed Trains Outmuscle Airlines - BusinessWeek




    It is expensive and slow. It makes more sense to drive or fly.
    And it's still losing money! How will the new version be better? There's no way that the high speed rail is going to be cheaper to build and operate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #63
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,584

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I do not know current government employment numbers.
    It's irrelevant, because the government can't create jobs.


    And taxes are different from consumer spending in this regard, how? Ultimately, one pays a fee, whether it is private or public and that fee (not always, but in certain cases) used to create value from lesser value, such as the highway system.
    There is no difference, because both orginate in the private sector. Again, the government can't make money. They can only take money--in the form of taxes--from the private sector.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #64
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Neither! How many times do I have to say that?? Work programs are nothing more than welfare.





    Since it's that easy, we can all just stay home and wait for the gubmint check to come on the first of the month.





    The solution to the economy and unemployment, is for people to stop believing that the government isn't the solution.





    Anyone that believes that government is the solution to economic ills and unemployment, is a Liberal, my friend. Sorry.
    Someone was on the radio the other morning saying that the US revalues its money just as much as the Chinese, maybe even more. How can this be? The Chinese are suppose to be the bastards.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #65
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's irrelevant, because the government can't create jobs.


    There is no difference, because both orginate in the private sector. Again, the government can't make money. They can only take money--in the form of taxes--from the private sector.
    Actually that's not true since I work for the govt. It's just that govt jobs don't build wealth, but only serve the People.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #66
    User
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Seen
    07-12-14 @ 01:31 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    This is what I hate about any rail debate...

    The issue is framed like this by conservatives:
    Republicans: anti-subsidies, Democrats: Pro-rail subsidies

    When in reality, the picture is like this:
    Republicans: pro-oil-based-subsidies, Democrats: pro-transportation-subsides (rail, air, auto)



    All transportation is subsidized. The gas taxes you pay go into the highway trust fund. But that only covers a little over half of highway operations. Southwest Airlines doesn't build airports. They pay taxes to use them, but that does not cover the cost of their construction. And yes, the Chicago Transit Administration is not profitable either. Local governments have to spend money to keep the trains running. But what would happen if we stopped (transit subsidies only)? The average weekday daily ridership of the Red Line is 250K boardings. Would it make sense to add 100,000 cars to the already packed Lake Shore Drive and Dan Ryan Expressway? Or would that incur billions of dollars in lost revenue due to wasted gasoline, lost time, pollution, environmental justice, etc?

    The same can be said of HSR in the near future. California's population is supposed to reach 60,000,000 in 2050, up from about 39,000,000 today. With highways and airports already at capacity, how are people to make intercity trips? We could fund a HSR project (~$45B if I remember correctly), add two lanes to I-5 (~$80B), or expand/build airports to the same capacity (~$80B). Or we could do nothing and incur billions of dollars annually in lost revenue and productivity. All cases incur billions in costs. The HSR option is the cheapest and has the added benefits of being more environmentally friendly, allowing better access to isolated cities like Fresno, connectivity with a planned privately funded Las Vegas-LA HSR line, downtown development, freedom from oil dependency, and perhaps most importantly to conservatives, runs an operating profit (find me one HSR line in the world that doesn't turn an operational profit. ACELA is a piece of crap, yet it still makes an operational profit.)

    I don't mind if you are opposed to federal and state subsidies to rail transportation...provided you are opposed to subsidies on all forms of transportation. Keep in mind that in this scenario, your fiscal ethics compel you to walk to work and bike to the grocery store. On a dirt path.
    Last edited by TitusAndronicus; 02-16-11 at 08:55 PM.

  7. #67
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    How refreshing is that? If someone would have said, "The federal government is going to give Florida 2.4 billion dollars for a high speed rail system" and someone told me a politician in Florida (any politician) said "No" and is going to give the money back to the Fed, I would have called BS so fast it would make your head spin.

    What it does mean alternatively, is that the Fed is not able to dictate, is what the States MUST do, and it's as simple as saying "No" and handing the money back. Scott should get a kewpie doll for doing that. Awesome!
    I see you're from New Jersey. And not from Florida. Why don't you first come down here and actually live in Florida for a while before you exalt how great it is that people spread so far apart in this state can't get around to other parts before you celebrate that fact because of the principle of the matter?
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  8. #68
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,584

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Actually that's not true since I work for the govt. It's just that govt jobs don't build wealth, but only serve the People.
    Your job wasn't created by the government. It was created by the private sector's demand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #69
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,584

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    This is what I hate about any rail debate...

    The issue is framed like this by conservatives:
    Republicans: anti-subsidies, Democrats: Pro-rail subsidies

    When in reality, the picture is like this:
    Republicans: pro-oil-based-subsidies, Democrats: pro-transportation-subsides (rail, air, auto)



    All transportation is subsidized. The gas taxes you pay go into the highway trust fund. But that only covers a little over half of highway operations. Southwest Airlines doesn't build airports. They pay taxes to use them, but that does not cover the cost of their construction. And yes, the Chicago Transit Administration is not profitable either. Local governments have to spend money to keep the trains running. But what would happen if we stopped (transit subsidies only)? The average weekday daily ridership of the Red Line is 250K boardings. Would it make sense to add 100,000 cars to the already packed Lake Shore Drive and Dan Ryan Expressway? Or would that incur billions of dollars in lost revenue due to wasted gasoline, lost time, pollution, environmental justice, etc?

    The same can be said of HSR in the near future. California's population is supposed to reach 60,000,000 in 2050, up from about 39,000,000 today. With highways and airports already at capacity, how are people to make intercity trips? We could fund a HSR project (~$45B if I remember correctly), add two lanes to I-5 (~$80B), or expand/build airports to the same capacity (~$80B). Or we could do nothing and incur billions of dollars annually in lost revenue and productivity. All cases incur billions in costs. The HSR option is the cheapest and has the added benefits of being more environmentally friendly, allowing better access to isolated cities like Fresno, connectivity with a planned privately funded Las Vegas-LA HSR line, downtown development, freedom from oil dependency, and perhaps most importantly to conservatives, runs an operating profit (find me one HSR line in the world that doesn't turn an operational profit. ACELA is a piece of crap, yet it still makes an operational profit.)

    I don't mind if you are opposed to federal and state subsidies to rail transportation...provided you are opposed to subsidies on all forms of transportation. Keep in mind that in this scenario, your fiscal ethics compel you to walk to work and bike to the grocery store. On a dirt path.
    I'm in the trucking business and I haven't gotten a single penny from the government to subsidize my business.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #70
    User
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Seen
    07-12-14 @ 01:31 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm in the trucking business and I haven't gotten a single penny from the government to subsidize my business.
    Really? Your trucking business builds its own roads? Well good for you.
    Last edited by TitusAndronicus; 02-16-11 at 09:02 PM.

Page 7 of 38 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •