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Thread: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    How? It's better for the environment, cheaper to run, and causes people to venture out more because of the fact that it is cheaper and allows them to travel further and more often.

    Where is the downside? Charlotte is going to build a highspeed train to Washington D.C. and I, along with others here in Charlotte, are extremely excited about the prospect of being able to get from here to D.C. or NYC in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable price.

    I might even drive my electric car to the train station when it is built in a few years. How awesome would that be?
    There's already passenger rail service from Charlotte to D.C.

    Do you use it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It costs more then it's worth, is economically unsustainable, and American's don't do trains like Europeans do.
    Neither are airlines.

    The Airline Industry
    Airlines' profitability is closely tied to economic growth and trade. During the first half of the 1990s, the industry suffered not only from world recession but travel was further depressed by the Gulf War. In 1991 the number of international passengers dropped for the first time. The financial difficulties were exacerbated by airlines over-ordering aircraft in the boom years of the late 1980s, leading to significant excess capacity in the market. IATA's member airlines suffered cumulative net losses of $20.4bn in the years from 1990 to 1994.

    Since then, airlines have had to recognize the need for radical change to ensure their survival and prosperity. Many have tried to cut costs aggressively, to reduce capacity growth and to increase load factors. At a time of renewed economic growth, such actions have returned the industry as a whole to profitability: IATA airlines' profits were $5bn in 1996, less than 2% of total revenues. This is below the level IATA believes is necessary for airlines to reduce their debt, build reserves and sustain investment levels. In addition, many airlines remain unprofitable.
    It's funny that you say we don't do trains like Europeans... we don't have them. One might think, "hey, no **** Sherlock." The more trains in operation and the wider area covered, the more likely they are to be used. Plus they are far better for the environment and use less energy than flying a jet full of people. I know conservatives, like religions, are opposed to change, but don't make us drag you kicking and screaming on everything, okay?

    Some change is good. You can accept it.

    *Edit: Here's some more stuff about high speed rails and airlines for you

    Spain's High-Speed Trains Outmuscle Airlines - BusinessWeek
    U.S. President Barack Obama has set aside $13 billion in stimulus and budget funds for high-speed trains in America. If he wants an example of how best to use that cash, Obama might take a look at Spain’s growing high-speed network.

    I’ve just arrived in Madrid from Barcelona during a reporting trip. And for the first time, I chose the high-speed rail system, known locally as Ave, instead of a traditional airline connection. My verdict: The train beats air travel hands down.

    That certainly wasn’t always the case. It has been years since I’ve traveled between the two biggest Spanish cities, but I remember well that there used to be only two options: Forking out big bucks for an airline ticket on the national carrier, Iberia, or facing five or more hours trundling slowly across Spain’s countryside in a worn-out train.

    Since early 2008, though, Spaniards have enjoyed the new, state-of-the-art Ave railway service that makes the journey between the city centers of Madrid and Barcelona in just two-and-a-half hours. (No traveling to far-flung airports, long lines for check-in and security, fighting for space in overhead luggage bins…) It’s another of the superfast train systems that cover Europe and that are the envy of some dreamers in the U.S.

    (The Madrid-Barcelona Ave line uses trains from Germany’s Siemens. Due to an editing error, an earlier version of this posting said the equipment came from Alstom, which makes the technology used in France’s famous TGV. But Alstom gear is, in fact, used on Spain’s high speed service between Madrid and Seville.)

    Needless to say, the arrival of Ave hasn’t been good news for Iberia or a number of discount Spanish airlines that sprang up in recent years. According to media reports, high-speed trains now carry almost half of the passengers between Madrid and Barcelona.

    It’s easy to see why. Sitting in comfortable seats with loads of legroom (I’m 6’4”, so that’s pretty important), I had a choice of watching a movie on flatscreen TVs spread throughout the cabin, or listening to a selection of radio stations piped through a jack next to my seat. A well-stocked food cart also helped pass the time. As Bruno, a marketing exec from Barcelona who was sitting next to me, said: “Why fly when you have all of this?”

    Indeed, the spread of Spain’s high-speed fleet will soon eclipse that of France, whose TGV trains have become synonymous with 185 mile-per-hour travel. And the quality of the Spanish service should give others pause—particularly France’s SNCF, which partly runs the considerably less generous Eurostar service between London and continental cities. If extra amenities come free with Spain’s high-speed trains, why can’t others around Europe (and beyond) offer something similar?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There's already passenger rail service from Charlotte to D.C.

    Do you use it?
    It is expensive and slow. It makes more sense to drive or fly.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 02-16-11 at 08:01 PM.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Your principal is wrong. After trillions of dollars being spent, how many jobs have been created by the government?
    I do not know current government employment numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    IOW, you don't have a clue what I'm telling you? In one ear and out the other?
    I wouldn't have asked if I believed I had a logical answer to your stance.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, that's where the government gets 90+% of it's revenue. That being the case, the government can't create wealth.
    And taxes are different from consumer spending in this regard, how? Ultimately, one pays a fee, whether it is private or public and that fee (not always, but in certain cases) used to create value from lesser value, such as the highway system.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It costs more then it's worth, is economically unsustainable, and American's don't do trains like Europeans do.
    yep


    Governor Rick Scott says No to High-Speed Rail | Red County

    Governor Scott rightly denied this project for the following three reasons:
    First capital cost overruns from the project could put Florida taxpayers on the hook for an additional $3 billion.
    Second ridership and revenue projections are historically overly-optimistic and would likely result in ongoing subsidies that state taxpayers would have to incur. (from $300 million $575 million over 10 years) Note: The state subsidizes Tri-Rail $34.6 million a year while passenger revenues covers only $10.4 million of the $64 million annual operating budget.
    Finally if the project becomes too costly for taxpayers and is shut down, the state would have to return the $2.4 billion in federal funds to D.C.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    He can give the money to Charlotte. We'll take it for our train!

    Thanks! Clean energy capital of the US!

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Some change is good. You can accept it.
    Not gonna happen until gas/diesel is $10 a gallon. Until then, the best, fastest train in the world will not make money. It comes down to the economics and convenience factors. We like our cars too much and gas is too cheap to be bothered at the train station. $50 round trip from Trenton to Baltimore, took just as long as driving. If I commuted every day - sure, I'd take the train. A once in a while trip - I'd rather drive - it's cheaper at the existing gas prices and on the way back, the train stopped due to a power outage in Philly - waited 45 minutes to get it fixed.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    He can give the money to Charlotte. We'll take it for our train!

    Thanks! Clean energy capital of the US!
    IT's all you --- when it doesn't pay off - you'll also be the highest taxed capital in the US.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama - USATODAY.com



    But...but...didn't Obama promise us high speed rail in the SOTU address?
    1) Obama did promise us high-speed rail, and was willing to provide federal funds for it in Florida. But it was Rick Scott, Florida's governor, who won't accept it. So Obama is willing to fulfill his promise. So I see no point in your attempt to do a "take that" at Obama.

    2) Do you know anything at all about Florida? Do you follow Florida politics at all? Have you ever lived in Florida? Have you ever experienced the transportation infrastructure of Florida? Because, trust me, I would LOVE to discuss it with you, and anyone else, in depth any day of the week. But I just wanted to know if you really wanted to have an honest discussion about it or was just using a news article about something you don't really know anything about to vent at our President.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Not gonna happen until gas/diesel is $10 a gallon. Until then, the best, fastest train in the world will not make money. It comes down to the economics and convenience factors. We like our cars too much and gas is too cheap to be bothered at the train station. $50 round trip from Trenton to Baltimore, took just as long as driving. If I commuted every day - sure, I'd take the train. A once in a while trip - I'd rather drive - it's cheaper at the existing gas prices and on the way back, the train stopped due to a power outage in Philly - waited 45 minutes to get it fixed.
    Again, those aren't high speed trains. As they get more connected, they get used more, and more profitable (while prices drop simultaneously).

    Airlines, for the most part, are not profitable either. We support them with subsidies because we feel that cheap, fast travel is important for our economy and citizens. I would rather subsidize a high speed train than an airline.

    Comparing Amtrak to a high speed rail is like comparing an unfunded bus transit system to NYC's subway or D.C.'s Metro. Yeah, no one rides the bus because it's slow, somewhat expensive, and often takes too long for a bus to come by. Everyone rides the subway/metro.

    Are you telling me you wouldn't ride a high speed rail to L.A. if you had to make a trip and it was available?

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    1) Obama did promise us high-speed rail, and was willing to provide federal funds for it in Florida. But it was Rick Scott, Florida's governor, who won't accept it. So Obama is willing to fulfill his promise. So I see no point in your attempt to do a "take that" at Obama.
    How refreshing is that? If someone would have said, "The federal government is going to give Florida 2.4 billion dollars for a high speed rail system" and someone told me a politician in Florida (any politician) said "No" and is going to give the money back to the Fed, I would have called BS so fast it would make your head spin.

    What it does mean alternatively, is that the Fed is not able to dictate, is what the States MUST do, and it's as simple as saying "No" and handing the money back. Scott should get a kewpie doll for doing that. Awesome!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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