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Thread: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Right, but that isn't your choice. This is a binary decision. Either support corporatist corruption by denying high-speed rail, or oppose it.
    That's a false dilemma. It's like you're saying I have to agree with the government, or that in effect I am agreeing with the government. I choose neither of those options. I choose to support a free transportation industry and nothing that hurts progress toward that end.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Your job wasn't created by the government. It was created by the private sector's demand.
    Well not really, but that's a separate discussion.
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Government coercion is of the same moral weight as corporate coercion. Like I said, slightly more government coercion will mean significant reduction in corporate coercion. Net gain for liberty.
    Corporate coercion, as we have seen it, still is government coercion. This is no net gain for liberty because even if it is a good idea it will be a waste of resources because it will be run into the ground like all government projects.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I pretty much support the rail system. I used to live in Germany, and high speed rails are nice. I really miss getting my work done on my way to work, or relaxing and taking a nap on the way... It seems a lot easier to get things done when you have a rail. You can pay bills and be on the way to work or a friends.

    A high speed rail system isn't big government IMO, and the rails in Germany are really nice and efficient. I am sure the government makes some money off them by charging fare too..

    Every time the price of fuel increases I groan and want that rail system...
    If it's such a good idea then the private sector would built it provided that government stops subsidizing the competition.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Still going on with this nonsense even though I already disproved it when I explained about the railroads that were built by private enterprise?
    I already told you why it won't work today. The old robber barrens have been disbanded, there are no more monopolies by which one can build the necessary resources and control of market to allow private industry to go about it. It's not the 19th century anymore, you would do well to remember that.
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I already told you why it won't work today. The old robber barrens have been disbanded, there are no more monopolies by which one can build the necessary resources and control of market to allow private industry to go about it. It's not the 19th century anymore, you would do well to remember that.
    That's hilarious. The amount of capital that so-called "robber barons" had in yesteryear doesn't compare to what we can gather today. I've already shown you that we regularly buy bonds that won't mature for 30 years sometimes (actually there was more confidence in these long-term bonds in the 19th century because there was significantly less inflation). Gathering enough capital to build such a project would be an endeavor, but by no means would it be impossible.

    I'm just waiting for you to have a serious argument to the contrary.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Ever heard of the Transcontinental Railroad? What about the whole railroad system built before the Civil War?
    I don't think the Transcontinental RR is an example that supports your cause. A Congressional Act founded the two companies to construct the railroad, funded by government bonds (thus risk-free for investors) and free land.

    And in reference to the other railroads, nearly every time a pre-Civil War railroad was built, it essentially created a monopoly on fast travel to or between locations with the added bonuses of year-round operation and greater safety. Even this was not enough sometimes.

    The first real exertion of substantial federal power under the interstate commerce clause came with the advent of the railroads in the mid-1800's. The government assumed complete dominion over the early railroads, going so far as to grant regional railroad monopolies through Acts of Congress, as well as owning a large percentage of stock in various early railroad corporations.
    Original Intent Treatise - Issues of Federal Jurisdiction

    We have since grown to the point that there is nowhere you could build a HSR line and have demand be price inelastic. The incentive to construct railroads in the 19th century far exceeds that of today for this reason.
    Last edited by TitusAndronicus; 02-19-11 at 04:12 PM.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Corporate coercion, as we have seen it, still is government coercion.
    And corporate coercion, as we have seen it, far outstrips government coercion.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    This is no net gain for liberty because even if it is a good idea it will be a waste of resources because it will be run into the ground like all government projects.
    Nonsense. This sort of mindless distrust for government is not helpful. Japan is a model that shows high speed rail can be run effectively by government. If this is your best argument, sir, you have failed miserably. I happily accept your de facto concession.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 02-19-11 at 04:36 PM.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That's hilarious. The amount of capital that so-called "robber barons" had in yesteryear doesn't compare to what we can gather today.
    "So-called" robber barons? Now that's hilarious.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Government coercion is of the same moral weight as corporate coercion. Like I said, slightly more government coercion will mean significant reduction in corporate coercion. Net gain for liberty.
    Who's going to protect us when there is too much government coercion? Net loss for liberty.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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