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Thread: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

  1. #271
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    Extra Baggage: When I was on HSR in Italy, no one bothered to count how many bags I had. There's plenty of space.

    People: True. You do pay per person, which makes the auto more desirable with the more people you have (provided gas remains cheap), but HSR is meant to compete with/compliment airlines. You pay per person there too.

    Food/Beverages: You pay for food on the road as well. Or you can bring food on the train. I did.

    Screening: One might think you would have to screen passengers, but it just isn't done. A high speed train just isn't the same threat as a flying missile full of jet fuel. Is there a danger of a terrorist attack? Yes. But no more than on packed commuter rail or subway trips that occur daily. You'll never see those with TSA agents and body scanners. We seem to be pretty good/lucky with relying on intelligence to prevent these types of attacks. And that can prevent more than just attacks on transportation targets (Portland, Rockford, Times Square, Fort Dix).

    Miami/Tampa: I would contend that there are plenty of people interested in going to Tampa and South Beach. And not just tourists. 1.35M passengers a year fly between Orlando and Miami. Another 1.35M fly between Tampa and Miami. And they don't even need to be heading to the cities. If Orlando offers a flight that Tampa does not, a person could take the train from downtown Tampa to the Orlando airport and fly from there.

    http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Fil...appendix_3.pdf
    For one, you were in Italy when your bags weren't counted. Plenty of space is irrelevant when the gov't is trying to make money one way of another off people.
    Yes, we pay per person on a plane but most of us cant even afford that anymore so we use our OWN vehicles to get around or travel.
    Food or beverage yes we pay on the road but at our own cost. We choose to get our food from the dollar general to walmart even a gas station. It isn't just one set price we must shell out just to eat or drink. (I personally dont want to pay $5 for a coke) And as for taking the food or drink on the rail...once again it will be screened just to make sure someone isnt going to blow anyone else up. No open containers is most likely.
    Saying the screening ISNT done...well thats sorta jumping the gun isnt it? You dont believe they will make you get screened once they put out all that money. No its prob. not the norm now like in Amtrak but come on..be realistic. As for tourism, you might have me there but I do NOT believe spending all this money to save a little time commuting is helping anyone out but the FEDERAL GOV'T.
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    I have also ridden on trains in the United States. On commuter rail they don't count your bags. On Amtrak you can have 3 checked bags and 2 carry on bags. After that you have to start paying.

    Amtrak - Baggage Policy and Information

    Air Travel: If no one can afford to fly, how come so many airports are at capacity? 6.3M people fly between the Bay Area and LA...I should think enough of those people would prefer to travel more comfortably in the same amount of time. And even if they don't, the population of California will grow by over 50% by 2050. Some of them should want to use the system, seeing as how the roads and airports have no extra capacity for them.

    Food: I've brought food onto American trains.

    Security: You don't need a train to find an enclosed space with people in it. Mumbai showed us that. No one waits for an hour to get through security at the London tube or Madrid Metro, years after their bombings. At Amtrak, they screen your checked baggage and conduct random searches. I don't know why you are so certain things will change once a HSR line is built.

  3. #273
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I simply cannot fathom people are buying into this just because the president said it would be a good idea.
    This is nonsense. This isn't the president's idea; before this thread I didn't even know Obama had an opinion on the issue. This is a Florida issue. There has been talk of bullet trains connecting the major Floridian cities for decades. It's never been implemented because small minded Republicans are always there to shoot it down. But anybody who truly has the best interest of the Florida economy at heart, rather than special interests, supports high speed rail.

  4. #274
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's hard to know how "lucrative" it can be. Plus the scale in both physical dimension, monetary investment, and time make it not too appealing to private industry.
    Still going on with this nonsense even though I already disproved it when I explained about the railroads that were built by private enterprise?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    How is that comment related to the story... except to say the GOP scores a political victory at the expense of their unemployed constituents.

    Well done GOP!! Way to represent!
    Kinda like the political victory that Obama scored when he killed all those oilfield jobs? Oh, wait, those jobs weren't paid off with tax money. My bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Still going on with this nonsense even though I already disproved it when I explained about the railroads that were built by private enterprise?
    What is the specific example?

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    What is the specific example?
    You don't really have to ask that, do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    What is the specific example?
    Ever heard of the Transcontinental Railroad? What about the whole railroad system built before the Civil War?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Except for minorities, women, homosexuals.
    I'm not saying that before the turn of that century that everything was better, but in terms of economic policies, but 1800s were.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    It's only outlived it's usefulness to you, buddy. It makes my point quite clearly. Corporatist corruption is running our economy into the ground, and some of its grotesque manifestations can be seen in its manipulation of government to favor obsolete technology like gas. As a result truly efficient technology like solar, wind and high speed rail fall by the wayside. Once again, this is not the result of a free market, or a semi-free market, but a totally corrupt market. That's the fire.

    Now, it is a compromise on libertarian principles to use tax money for a high speed rail system, but minarchy itself is a compromise. If you are not willing to compromise on the noncoercion principle then you are an anarcho-capitalist, not a minarchist. If you are are minarchist, then you are necessarily a compromiser. Now that that's out of the way, we can see that rationally, a 10 billion or so investment in high speed rail is nothing compared to the trillions that corporatists thugs loot every year from us. If we can fight back using the fire of government to get high speed rail, it is a net gain for liberty.
    I'm not willing to compromise because by compromising I gain nothing. The fact is that such a project cannot be run well without a profit motive. Even if the free market would have built it long ago, it doesn't matter, because it will not be run well. There will be padded projects, budgetary excesses, and in the future a lack of maintenance. I just cannot support such a project because the government has proven time and time again that you cannot run something well unless you have profit in mind.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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