Page 17 of 38 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 379

Thread: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

  1. #161
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They also borrow money when they're sure they're going to make a profit. Ding, ding, ding!!!
    A corporation's objective is to make the corporation better off; a government's objective is NOT to make the government better off, it's to make society better off. If the government tried to line its own pockets, people would rightly be outraged by the corruption.

    Government basically represents society as a whole, as it was elected by the public. It provides services to society that are NOT profitable for private enterprise...military, infrastructure, education, etc. Therefore instead of asking whether "government" can afford something or whether it can turn a profit, we should instead be asking whether "society" can afford something or whether it can turn a profit (i.e. if the economic benefits outweigh the costs).

    This notion of profits is ridiculous when it comes to government spending. The costs of a high-speed rail system are born by society; government is merely the vehicle through which they are collected. The benefits, on the other hand, accrue directly to society without passing through the government coffers first. By that measure, of course it's not going to be "profitable" if you're merely looking at the government's balance sheet rather than how it affects the economy as a whole.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-17-11 at 02:48 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #162
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    A corporation's objective is to make the corporation better off; a government's objective is NOT to make the government better off, it's to make society better off. If the government tried to line its own pockets, people would rightly be outraged by the corruption.

    Government basically represents society as a whole, as it was elected by the public. It provides services to society that are NOT profitable for private enterprise...military, infrastructure, education, etc. Therefore instead of asking whether "government" can afford something or whether it can turn a profit, we should instead be asking whether "society" can afford something or whether it can turn a profit (i.e. if the economic benefits outweigh the costs).

    This notion of profits is ridiculous when it comes to government spending. The costs of a high-speed rail system are born by society; government is merely the vehicle through which they are collected. The benefits, on the other hand, accrue directly to society without passing through the government coffers first. By that measure, of course it's not going to be "profitable" if you're merely looking at the government's balance sheet rather than how it affects the economy as a whole.
    Exactly! And if the rail is able to turn a profit, or even come close to matching expendatures, then the rail is able to pay for itself by charging per use instead of through tax. Apdst is quite upset at the notion of paying taxes to keep up a rail, but he pays taxes to keep up the highway. If instead of taxes, they put a toll on every road and forced him to pay per use, his trucking industry would face major issues in profitability!

    So really, for Apdst, this is more about his interests than about society as a whole. He has no problem with highway projects because he pays a fair tax for them instead of per use. That is his gain. He uses the system more than most (in fact he uses it to make a profit), but he pays in the same percentage as anyone else. Yet, when there is a project such a rail that requires taxes to build and then some taxes to maintain, he is offended by it.

    These types of people are hard to argue with because they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the system works and they also refuse to see it from any other perspective.

  3. #163
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,465

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    A corporation's objective is to make the corporation better off; a government's objective is NOT to make the government better off, it's to make society better off. If the government tried to line its own pockets, people would rightly be outraged by the corruption.

    Government basically represents society as a whole, as it was elected by the public. It provides services to society that are NOT profitable for private enterprise...military, infrastructure, education, etc. Therefore instead of asking whether "government" can afford something or whether it can turn a profit, we should instead be asking whether "society" can afford something or whether it can turn a profit (i.e. if the economic benefits outweigh the costs).

    This notion of profits is ridiculous when it comes to government spending. The costs of a high-speed rail system are born by society; government is merely the vehicle through which they are collected. The benefits, on the other hand, accrue directly to society without passing through the government coffers first. By that measure, of course it's not going to be "profitable" if you're merely looking at the government's balance sheet rather than how it affects the economy as a whole.
    It's objective is to operate within it's means. That's what's good for society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #164
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,465

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Exactly! And if the rail is able to turn a profit, or even come close to matching expendatures, then the rail is able to pay for itself by charging per use instead of through tax. Apdst is quite upset at the notion of paying taxes to keep up a rail, but he pays taxes to keep up the highway. If instead of taxes, they put a toll on every road and forced him to pay per use, his trucking industry would face major issues in profitability!

    So really, for Apdst, this is more about his interests than about society as a whole. He has no problem with highway projects because he pays a fair tax for them instead of per use. That is his gain. He uses the system more than most (in fact he uses it to make a profit), but he pays in the same percentage as anyone else. Yet, when there is a project such a rail that requires taxes to build and then some taxes to maintain, he is offended by it.

    These types of people are hard to argue with because they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the system works and they also refuse to see it from any other perspective.
    That's right and I'm going to be even more upset, if I have to even more in taxes, to pay for this piece-a-**** train.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #165
    Cynical Optimist
    jambalaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Last Seen
    11-28-12 @ 05:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,481

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    You can't simply count the cost. We didn't count the cost when we decided to land a man on the moon. High speed rail will work but it has to be highly subsidized by the federal government. This is one of the few endeavors that I think government can and should do. Payback will be way, way down the line. It is the nature of the beast. The longer we wait the more it will cost and the further out we will the push the payback. You can't judge this idea by how we live our lives today. Cheap gas and cars won't be around forever. Get this started for the future and put people to work today.

  6. #166
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's right and I'm going to be even more upset, if I have to even more in taxes, to pay for this piece-a-**** train.
    Do you or do you not support the interstate highway system? Is whysoserious correct that you'd be screaming bloody murder if you actually had to pay for it in proportion to the amount that you used it?
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  7. #167
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,465

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Do you or do you not support the interstate highway system? Is whysoserious correct that you'd be screaming bloody murder if you actually had to pay for it in proportion to the amount that you used it?
    I already do!

    Ever hear of IFTA, or IRP? I have to report my mileage, per state, every year and I'm charged according to that + heavy road use tax + fuel taxes. And, now, I'm going to have to pay for this dumbass train, too?

    So, go peddle that bull**** to somebody that doesn't know any better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #168
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I already do!

    Ever hear of IFTA, or IRP? I have to report my mileage, per state, every year and I'm charged according to that + heavy road use tax + fuel taxes. And, now, I'm going to have to pay for this dumbass train, too?

    So, go peddle that bull**** to somebody that doesn't know any better.
    Yeahhhh...you just lost all credibility on this issue. I'm no longer going to respond to you in this thread, because I no longer believe that you are arguing in good faith. You're just arguing for whatever benefits your pocketbook the most, rather than any kind of principled or pragmatic view of what's best for the nation. Toodles!
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-17-11 at 03:28 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  9. #169
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yeahhhh...you just lost all credibility on this issue. I'm no longer going to respond to you in this thread, because I no longer believe that you are arguing in good faith. You're just arguing for whatever benefits your pocketbook the most, rather than any kind of principled or pragmatic view of what's best for society. Toodles!
    and you're surprised why?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  10. #170
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,465

    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    and you're surprised why?
    Why? Because I'm actually in business to make money? Whatta shocker!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

Page 17 of 38 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •