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Thread: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

  1. #131
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    So naturally, since it works for France, it'll do the same here. You DO realize their system connects to neighboring countries, right? And that THAT is what generates the majority of their profit?
    Actually... not it does not. 3 out of 7 "areas" head towards, but not always into other countries. The rest are national only. And so what if they link to other countries? They link cities to cities and it does not matter if they are across borders in an area of the world where borders mean jack****.

    What about the Spanish system? It is not as profitable yet because it is still being built, but it is just as popular. It took 95% of the airline traffic when my local city Malaga was connected to Madrid. 400 or so km trip in under 3 hours... city centre to city centre.. you cant beat that. And cheaper than a plane ticket.. And the Spanish system does not link to other countries btw

    Oh... it's also nationally owned and subsidized.
    And you base this one what? That the company is state owned, then it has to be subsidized? Did you miss the 1 billion in profit a year?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It was the 1950s and people were building bomb shelters in their back yards. I'm pretty sure that evacuation was the primary motive and moving armed units was secondary.
    And, you would be mistaken, but keep lieing to yourself, my man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Go ask anyone in England if they want HMO's. Go ask someone in Canada if they want to give up socialized medicine. Go ask the French if they want to cut the supply of health care to their poor off so that they can save a few bucks.

    I think you'll find that we are one of the few nations still selfish enough to consider universal health care a burdon on society. We truly have fallen from what made us a great nation:

    Innovation. We don't keep up with the times because too many people are scared of the future.
    I don't think they want Hillarycare, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually... not it does not. 3 out of 7 "areas" head towards, but not always into other countries. The rest are national only. And so what if they link to other countries? They link cities to cities and it does not matter if they are across borders in an area of the world where borders mean jack****.

    What about the Spanish system? It is not as profitable yet because it is still being built, but it is just as popular. It took 95% of the airline traffic when my local city Malaga was connected to Madrid. 400 or so km trip in under 3 hours... city centre to city centre.. you cant beat that. And cheaper than a plane ticket.. And the Spanish system does not link to other countries btw

    Oh... it's also nationally owned and subsidized.
    And you base this one what? That the company is state owned, then it has to be subsidized? Did you miss the 1 billion in profit a year?
    I base it on factgs, not fantasy that you seem to always prefer (as long as said fantasy agrees with your opinion).

    Here's one example...
    For French High-Speed Rail, a Lower-Cost Future Pondered « The Transport Politic
    Moreover, the company, faced with extremely high track use fees, is desperate to increase its revenue stream. Despite the fact that both SNCF and the national track owner, Réseau Ferré de France (RFF), are entirely government owned, they have been at odds with each other because of their diverging interests since the latter entity was created in the late 1990s (previously the tracks were owned by SNCF).
    BTW... your 'profit number' is outdated, and in the wrong currency, but of course you knew that and simply hoped I'd take you at your word (which isn't really worth all that much ion this board).

    For French High-Speed Rail, a Lower-Cost Future Pondered « The Transport Politic
    The odd result is that last year, RFF made its first profit since its creation even as SNCF lost €500 million (after a one billion Euro profit the year before).
    The French government’s choice to subsidize TGV routes to less popular destinations rather than having SNCF cancel them because they’re no longer profitable is a political response to a management problem, since SNCF no longer is making enough money on its most-used lines to cross-subsidize within the company. Yet there is no way to assume that this is a permanent solution, since competitors will begin pushing for their own subsidies soon enough. The prioritized association between the goals of the French state and SNCF will slowly dissolve.
    For services that are not profitable, should the government use separate funds to ensure their continued running? Wouldn’t that simply result in the all-too-familiar privatization of profits and socialization of losses?

    It troubles me that states now funding new intercity corridor development, including California, Florida, Illinois, and Wisconsin, have failed to address these questions straight-on, as complicated as they might be. Considering international experience, the projects in each of these states are likely to produce operational profits, but state governments haven’t established where that additional money would be directed. If we’re serious about improving the U.S. rail system, we have an obligation to do so in a way that establishes our response to these problems before we run full-on into them.

  5. #135
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama - USATODAY.com



    But...but...didn't Obama promise us high speed rail in the SOTU address?
    it's not obama's fault florida elected a son of a bitch.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    How dishonest.

    It'd be a giant waste of money that would put us further indebt for what? Another AMTRACK?
    what do you know about it? it was a shovel ready project that would have employed a lot of floridians.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Well, that may be the case, but Florida also suffers for it.

    See, in Florida, the major urban population centers are spread out from each other. Also, Florida's shape makes it awkward to travel between, especially from the panhandle to South Florida. It can take over 4 hours to get from the Miami area up to the Orlando area.

    The problem with Florida is that everything is on the perimeter. The panhandle is thicker with cities, and just south of that there is a ring - Orlando, West Palm, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ft. Myers, Tampa, Gainesville, and back to Orlando - where the heaviest urban centers are. But within that ring is the rural area of small cities.

    Having a high speed rail line could help the people living in those rural areas to access those major urban areas. Not only with this open up Florida's economy, as more people will have access to more types of shopping, it will also help Floridians get access to more job opportunities, as they can travel across the state easier.

    Also, Florida has absolutely NO real public transportation system. This despite the fact that Florida has an incredibly large population of the elderly who could benefit from it since they may be too elderly or too disabled to drive on their own.

    And please remember - Florida is NOT Yankee-land. If you do not have your own car, you are stuck wherever you are.

    And speaking of other transportation projects in Florida, also keep in mind that the Port of Miami is the only place on the U.S.' East Coast that can be enlarged enough to allow new supercargo ships coming in from the Panama Canal to dock and unload their cargo. It's one of three possibilities, but the other two aren't able to. But Rick Scott is also preventing any spending on that because of budget cuts. Despite the fact that it affects not only the Florida economy adversely but also the economy of the rest of the U.S.

    So when it comes to high speed rail, I don't think it should be built up in states that already have a dense transportation infrastructure, specifically in the Northeast. Rather, I really do think it should be built up in states without it, especially in the Southeast. By building it up and giving the people the option of using it, I think more will take advantage of it, especially in this recession where people can't afford cars but could afford train trips to get around.

    So, in short, I don't think it makes much sense to spend money on transportation infrastructure in states that already have it - however, I think federal money should be spent on transportation infrastructure in states that currently lack it.
    And I think that's a logical view to take as well as reasonable. I'm just saying it should be left up to the states and the Fed should stay out of it with their subsidy money. If Flordia wants to put in a high speed rail and their citizens agree to it and are willing to pay for it between Jacksonville and New Orleans, with Alabama, Mississippi and L.A. buy in for stops and funding, I think it's great. The states should settle on the deal, raise the money, and get going. When the Fed steps in and basically throws bribe money at them, and the State says, "No" that's a pretty strong message - NOT that the State doesn want it, and possibly even NOT that they don't NEED it, it's just that they cannot pay for it - and the majority of states are in the red because of too much spending over the decades. The timing is bad and the risk maybe too great.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    it's not obama's fault florida elected a son of a bitch.
    Actually, it's not Rick Scott's fault that we have a bastard in in the White House.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #139
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What about the Spanish system? It is not as profitable yet because it is still being built, but it is just as popular. It took 95% of the airline traffic when my local city Malaga was connected to Madrid. 400 or so km trip in under 3 hours... city centre to city centre.. you cant beat that. And cheaper than a plane ticket.. And the Spanish system does not link to other countries btw
    Again, state-owned.

    FuturePundit: High Speed Rail Rarely Turns A Profit

    By 2020, Spain plans to spend close to 100 billion euros on infrastructure and billions more on trains. That figure could give pause to places like California, a potential high-speed corridor whose area and population are about four-fifths the size of Spain’s.

    “High-speed rail is good for society and it’s good for the environment, but it’s not a profitable business,” said Mr. Barrón of the International Union of Railways. He reckons that only two routes in the world — between Tokyo and Osaka, and between Paris and Lyon, France — have broken even.

  10. #140
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Why does a rail system need to turn a profit? I don't think our interstate highway system turns a profit and yet I don't see anyone advocating to abandon it. Perhaps the millions of additional jobs that it creates might have something to do with its popularity.

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