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Thread: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Evacing people after a nuke strike was secondary to moving armoed units around the country.
    It was the 1950s and people were building bomb shelters in their back yards. I'm pretty sure that evacuation was the primary motive and moving armed units was secondary.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Countries with universal health care have already innovated well past us because they allow for the treatment of all of their citizens. We cannot say that. If someone works 20 hours a week and goes to school full time but can't get insurance, and that person then comes down with cancer... oh well. That's your problem buddy! It's a great system we have.

    I am not sure what you are saying about mammograms in Canada... all research I can find shows us following Canada:

    New U.S. mammogram advice in line with Canada - CTV News


    So I am not sure what you are worried about. Clearly your wife is recommended the same screenings here in the US as in Canada, but she is free to do whatever she wants in either one.

    An update on mammography use in Canada


    Most importantly this article disproves another unfounded conservative claim about socialized medicine:



    The claim that people will overuse the system just because it is availible. Nope, it turns out that people are still just as lazy when it is free!
    completely ignoring my post I see... typical when you know you've been proven wrong... you slink away and hope no one notices you licking your now sore ass.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    really? Socialized medicine works EVERYWHERE that has it?
    Socialized Medicine in Europe - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com


    yeah baby..... that's what we need here... socialized medicine like these other countries ALL have... right?

    it saddens me when people like you THINK they know what the **** they are talking about, and obviously don't. That took me 60 seconds to find.
    Wow, pat yourself on the back for finding an article. Do you really want me to drag up insurance horror stories? I promise I can top anything you post. And let's be honest, if you're a rich man in the UK, you can buy extra insurance and go to any hospital or doctor you want.

    I feel like I have to post some insurance stories now... so I guess I'll put a couple up. I mean, it's amazing me what some stupid ****s will defend just because they watch Fox News every day (I can be an angry jerk too!):

    12 Outrageous Health Care Horror Stories | Shrinkage Is Good
    ictured above is the actual note received by Larry Smith stating that Labcorp would not perform a blood test on him until he made good on his $7 debt. Smith’s wife notes that this was not a pointless or optional blood test, but rather was being sought because Smith had suffered an intense heart attack that made him sweat profusely and changed the color of his skin.
    Robin Steinwand, a 53 year old victim of multiple sclerosis. Steinwand had been taking the prescription drug Copaxone, which cost $1,900 per month but which she had received for only a $20 co-pay since being diagnosed in 2000. But one day, her insurance company raised the price, leading to an unexpected (and now ongoing) bill of $325 – or $3,900 per year.
    That’s what happened to Arlington’s Robert W. Banning, a chronic myelogenous leukemia victim who was prescribed Sprycel by his doctor. The twice-daily tablet inhibits the spread of cancer cells without the grueling ordeal of chemotherapy, but a 90 day supply costs a staggering $13,500, of which Banning’s AARP insurance required him personally to pay over $4,000. Banning’s son has courageously vowed to do whatever it takes, stating “you don’t put your parent on a scale“, but there’s no denying the intense hardship a sudden and permanent $12,000 per year drug bill creates.
    Women with lupus have struggled greatly under the U.S. health care system, according to a Wall Street Journal study referenced by MedicalNewsToday.com. A disturbing case in point is Monique White, a Tennessee woman who had to quit her job after being diagnosed with lupus and consequently lost her health insurance coverage. White promptly enrolled in Medicaid, and then promptly “lost her coverage because of budget reductions to the program.” White resisted going to the hospital when her symptoms worsened, citing lack of insurance, but was rushed there anyway when she eventually had a seizure. She died just a few months later however, primarily from not attending to her symptoms until it was too late.
    Now these are just the first ones I stumbled upon with a google search, and also these have only been cases of horror stories supplied by people who had health insurance and made payments. These aren't the "bums" you hate so much. No, their stories are much worse.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    completely ignoring my post I see... typical when you know you've been proven wrong... you slink away and hope no one notices you licking your now sore ass.
    Give me time to respond! It'll be alright, friend!

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Countries with universal health care have already innovated well past us because they allow for the treatment of all of their citizens. We cannot say that. If someone works 20 hours a week and goes to school full time but can't get insurance, and that person then comes down with cancer... oh well. That's your problem buddy! It's a great system we have.
    Innovation doesn't mean price of treatment.

    If instead you think the system is the innovation, than you better figure out quick that their system is based in ideas older than our system.

    I am not sure what you are saying about mammograms in Canada... all research I can find shows us following Canada:

    New U.S. mammogram advice in line with Canada - CTV News


    So I am not sure what you are worried about. Clearly your wife is recommended the same screenings here in the US as in Canada, but she is free to do whatever she wants in either one.

    You completely missed my point. Where can she get one in a timely manner?
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-17-11 at 01:48 AM.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's neither practical, nor profitable? Two dan fine reasons for the government not to spend money on it.
    I've already addressed the issue of profitability. It isn't the government's JOB to be profitable. The interstate highway system isn't profitable, in the sense that it costs far more to build/maintain than the pittance the government collects from toll roads. Yet practically everyone would agree that it was a worthwhile investment.

    If a high-speed rail system provides more economic benefits for society as a whole (i.e. not just government revenue) than it costs to build it, it's a worthy investment and the government absolutely should spend money on it.
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Demand.
    Exactly. There's no demand for a private high-speed rail system, because the start-up costs are too high. That doesn't mean it isn't in society's best interests to have one. The reason that a private system doesn't work is because the costs are born by the entity who builds it but the benefits are diffuse to all of society, instead of reaped entirely by the entity that built it. For the same reason, the question of whether or not a public rail system would be "profitable" is a red herring, because the government does not and should not even TRY to capture all the benefits. The whole point of a high-speed rail system is to make society better off in some way...in terms of a cleaner environment, faster transportation, easier movement of freight, reduced waiting times at airports, etc.

    America's infrastructure is falling apart. Arguing that we "can't afford" to invest in 21st century infrastructure is silly, because our infrastructure is what drives a lot of our economic growth.
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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Surem bro. It's called, "supply and demand". There is a demand and your company supplies goods to meet that demand. It's how your company makes a profit.
    True, but that has no bearing in this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Government can't create demand. Government can't create jobs. Government can't create wealth. The United States didn't grow into the strongest economy in world history, because the government did any of those things.

    BTW, I never called you stupid. Don't put words into my mouth.
    So you are sticking to statements of principal without any supportive reasoning then?

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Exactly. There's no demand for a private high-speed rail system, because the start-up costs are too high.
    That has nothing to do with its demand. That has to do with the possibility of it existing in a market that needs to turn a profit and is worried about the bottom line. Demand is the people that want the service to exist and would use it if it did. The fact is no one really desires to go on a train everyday in this country and it has nothing to do with how fast they are.

    That doesn't mean it isn't in society's best interests to have one.
    I hardly care, and like I told you the point of government isn't to pay for anything and everything that could make society better. If it was, there would be no limit to their power.

    The reason that a private system doesn't work is because the costs are born by the entity who builds it but the benefits are diffuse to all of society, instead of reaped entirely by the entity that built it.
    Benefits go to those that use the product no matter who provides it, but the costs are no doubt cheaper in the market where the cost of equipment would most likely be cheaper, and the cost of employment would be as well.


    For the same reason, the question of whether or not a public rail system would be "profitable" is a red herring, because the government does not and should not even TRY to capture all the benefits. The whole point of a high-speed rail system is to make society better off in some way...in terms of a cleaner environment, faster transportation, easier movement of freight, reduced waiting times at airports, etc.
    Its not a red herring. We have enough of these kind of spending programs where the entire point of it is to spend and not make. We don't need more blackholes, thank you very much, and frankly, I don't care if it makes people money, or helps the economy, what I care about is the enormous black hole it would only help make bigger.

    As for it making a cleaner environment you are assuming I care enough about any one topic including yours to support any action, but that is not the case for this, or any other topic. As for faster transportation, I don't see how we need it. As for reduced airport you might have a point, but than I don't really care all that much either.

    America's infrastructure is falling apart. Arguing that we "can't afford" to invest in 21st century infrastructure is silly, because our infrastructure is what drives a lot of our economic growth.
    If we wish to copy everyone else and claim we must do so to stay current than we have missed the entire point of the entire act to start out with. Staying current is what we make it, not what everyone else makes it. To say we must do what others have done is claiming what they have done what we can't do better. Sorry, but that is losers talk. And honestly, I'm into this whole competition world bull**** with every little thing. If they are better than us at some stuff, big whoop, seriously.
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-17-11 at 05:06 AM.

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    Re: Florida scraps high-speed rail plan pushed by Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That has nothing to do with its demand. That has to do with the possibility of it existing in a market that needs to turn a profit and is worried about the bottom line. Demand is the people that want the service to exist and would use it if it did. The fact is no one really desires to go on a train everyday in this country and it has nothing to do with how fast they are.
    And most people didn't have any need for interstate highways or airports...until they did. You think that people have no desire to travel long distances quickly and cheaply, because the service doesn't exist yet. If it did exist, more people would make use of it, just as most people were content to live their entire lives within a 20 mile radius of their home prior to the development of the automobile and paved roads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin
    I hardly care, and like I told you the point of government isn't to pay for anything and everything that could make society better. If it was, there would be no limit to their power.
    Well this is a fundamental disagreement then. I don't have a problem with government bettering society when the free market is unable to do so. If it didn't, then certain problems would fester for decades and never get solved, and nearly everyone would be poorer as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin
    Benefits go to those that use the product no matter who provides it, but the costs are no doubt cheaper in the market where the cost of equipment would most likely be cheaper, and the cost of employment would be as well.
    Yes but as you mentioned, there's not enough demand for the services for the private sector to step in...at least, not enough demand at the rates they'd have to charge to recoup their costs. If a government entity provided high-speed rail service for free or for very cheap, as an alternative to airports and highways, and didn't worry about it being "profitable" from the government's perspective, the economy as a whole would benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin
    Its not a red herring. We have enough of these kind of spending programs where the entire point of it is to spend and not make. We don't need more blackholes, thank you very much, and frankly, I don't care if it makes people money, or helps the economy, what I care about is the enormous black hole it would only help make bigger.
    This is a breathtakingly shortsighted view to take of government spending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin
    As for it making a cleaner environment you are assuming I care enough about any one topic including yours to support any action, but that is not the case for this, or any other topic. As for faster transportation, I don't see how we need it. As for reduced airport you might have a point, but than I don't really care all that much either.
    Even if you don't care about anything other than your own pocketbook, this will grow the economy and therefore make you wealthier in the long term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin
    If we wish to copy everyone else and claim we must do so to stay current than we have missed the entire point of the entire act to start out with. Staying current is what we make it, not what everyone else makes it. To say we must do what others have done is claiming what they have done what we can't do better. Sorry, but that is losers talk. And honestly, I'm into this whole competition world bull**** with every little thing. If they are better than us at some stuff, big whoop, seriously.
    I didn't say anything about anyone else or any competition. I said that this will grow our economy, and that not investing in things that will grow our economy because we "can't afford them" is foolish and counterproductive.
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