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Thread: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murder of

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I support this law. I believe people should be allowed to use lethal force in order to protect an unborn child that is at threat for murder and being attacked.
    So essentially you're in favor of legalizing murder, as long as its murder you approve of. The law states that it could be justifiable homicide if you kill someone whose intent is:

    "to harm the unborn child of such person in a manner and to a degree likely to result in the death of the unborn child, "

    Note, doesn't say "harm the unborn child" illegally...but simply says harm it. So a doctor performing a legal 1st trimester abortion...hell, a person in a clinic giving the person the morning after pill...could be concievably killed under "justifiable" homicide for doing a completely lawful act that is part of their job.

    How in the world is allowing people performing a legal action that is part of their job be legally murdered a "good" thing. Even if you think abortion is a bad thing, legalizing further murder isn't a solution.

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    As the law stands today, if a man punches her in the stomach and she pulls out a gun and kills him, she gets charged with murder.
    In Texas punching a woman, especially a pregnant woman, in the belly can get you shot by the woman or by someone who sees that an assault is in progress and they have reason to believe that the assault may cause death or serious injury. I can shoot to kill a man who is in my house breaking my dishes. I can shoot a person who in my yard at night stealing my yard rake. I donít even have to give the warning. I can chase them and kill them if they run out of my yard with my rake.

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So essentially you're in favor of legalizing murder, as long as its murder you approve of.
    Pro-choice does this all the time.

    If the woman kills her unborn in the proscribed manner, it's "a right", but if anyone else kills the unborn, even with her consent, in any non-sanctioned fashion, it's "murder".

    The nature and reality of the thing being killed doesn't change, only the context of it's death, and pro-choice approves of this. Elective abortion is therefore nothing short of legalized murder, just as 'murder' is unlawful 'killing'.

    Now please don't take this wrong, I'm all for legalizing murder that we agree with and calling it killing instead. That's fine. You have the right to legally murder someone who is a threat to your life. You have the right to lawfully murder someone who is a threat to your children's lives, taking your property, trespassing, etc. See I can play your word game too. But since pro-choice also supports this it is nothing short of pure hypocrisy to try and accuse someone else of the same as though it's wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    How in the world is allowing people performing a legal action that is part of their job be legally murdered a "good" thing. Even if you think abortion is a bad thing, legalizing further murder isn't a solution.
    I agree with this. The correct thing to do is make abortion illegal, that way the 'procedure' is unlawful the family member remains within the law when killing said abortion doctor.

    Abortions which should remain legal forever are only those which jeopardize the mother's life or will cause a serious injury, and even then every reasonable effort should be made to save the unborn. All other abortions should be outlawed and lethal force therefore authorized to stop them.

    However, until such a time that those abortions are outlawed, everyone should be legally restrained from using lethal force to stop them.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-17-11 at 10:20 PM.

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Pro-choice does this all the time.
    And that makes it right how? And that makes pro-life people supporting legalized murder how?

    If the woman kills her unborn in the proscribed manner, it's "a right", but if anyone else kills the unborn, even with her consent, in any non-sanctioned fashion, it's "murder".
    Yep, that's the law as it is now. If you think its a bad law, try to get the law changed. I have no issue with that.

    The nature and reality of the thing being killed doesn't change, only the context of it's death, and pro-choice approves of this. Elective abortion is therefore nothing short of legalized murder, just as 'murder' is unlawful 'killing'.
    Wonderful, then try and get the law changed. My issue is not with people wanting to get the law changed. My issue is with people further attempting to legalize murder of individuals who are performing legal activities.

    Now please don't take this wrong, I'm all for legalizing murder that we agree with and calling it killing instead. That's fine. You have the right to legally murder someone who is a threat to your life. You have the right to lawfully murder someone who is a threat to your children's lives, taking your property, trespassing, etc. See I can play your word game too. But since pro-choice also supports this it is nothing short of pure hypocrisy to try and accuse someone else of the same as though it's wrong.
    Someone whose a ILLEGAL threat to your life. If you think that the Milk Man is a threat to your life because he's serving you milk and you think its a secret plot to kill you because milk is poisonous, its not legal to kill him. You're allowed to lawfully murder someone who is a threat to your children's lives, taking your property, and trespassing (in some states) because in all those cases the person is performing ILLEGAL activities. You can't just declare someone in the middle of the street "Trespassing" and shoot him. You can't just declare that a kid whose called your son a boogerface is a threat to him and thus shoot him. It is only justifiable in situations where an individual is performing an illegal action that violates your rights/the rights of your families and its deemed that the murder is necessary to protect those rights from that illegal action.

    Such is not the case here, as the law allows for the murder of people performing a LEGAL action.

    I agree with this. The correct thing to do is make abortion illegal, that way the 'procedure' is unlawful the family member remains within the law when killing said abortion doctor.
    Hey, if you manage to get abortion banned, and you want to try that killing an abortion doctor whose in the midst of attempting to get an illegal abortion in order to save your kid is justifiable homicide, I'd have less issue with it.

    But the fact is, abortion isn't illegal now, so I'm not for a law allowing someone to legally kill someone for performing a legal act.

    However, until such a time that those abortions are outlawed, everyone should be legally restrained from using lethal force to stop them.
    And this law doesn't do that, because this law allows for the loophole of claiming justifiable murder for killing someone who is doing it within the boundaries of the law.

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Moderator's Warning:
    South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murder ofLook! Another abortion thread that turns into personal insults and attacks. Let's stick to the topic and cease making it so personal shall we?
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Pro-choice does this all the time.

    If the woman kills her unborn in the proscribed manner, it's "a right", but if anyone else kills the unborn, even with her consent, in any non-sanctioned fashion, it's "murder".

    The nature and reality of the thing being killed doesn't change, only the context of it's death, and pro-choice approves of this. Elective abortion is therefore nothing short of legalized murder, just as 'murder' is unlawful 'killing'.

    Now please don't take this wrong, I'm all for legalizing murder that we agree with and calling it killing instead. That's fine. You have the right to legally murder someone who is a threat to your life. You have the right to lawfully murder someone who is a threat to your children's lives, taking your property, trespassing, etc. See I can play your word game too. But since pro-choice also supports this it is nothing short of pure hypocrisy to try and accuse someone else of the same as though it's wrong.



    I agree with this. The correct thing to do is make abortion illegal, that way the 'procedure' is unlawful the family member remains within the law when killing said abortion doctor.

    Abortions which should remain legal forever are only those which jeopardize the mother's life or will cause a serious injury, and even then every reasonable effort should be made to save the unborn. All other abortions should be outlawed and lethal force therefore authorized to stop them.

    However, until such a time that those abortions are outlawed, everyone should be legally restrained from using lethal force to stop them.
    there must be community colleges in your area even in the south....take some courses in history and philosophy (esp. plato and emm. kant) and you won't sound like a dumb hillbilly (or a candidate for the sa, 80 years late)

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And that makes it right how? And that makes pro-life people supporting legalized murder how?

    Yep, that's the law as it is now. If you think its a bad law, try to get the law changed. I have no issue with that.

    Wonderful, then try and get the law changed. My issue is not with people wanting to get the law changed. My issue is with people further attempting to legalize murder of individuals who are performing legal activities.

    Someone whose a ILLEGAL threat to your life. If you think that the Milk Man is a threat to your life because he's serving you milk and you think its a secret plot to kill you because milk is poisonous, its not legal to kill him. You're allowed to lawfully murder someone who is a threat to your children's lives, taking your property, and trespassing (in some states) because in all those cases the person is performing ILLEGAL activities. You can't just declare someone in the middle of the street "Trespassing" and shoot him. You can't just declare that a kid whose called your son a boogerface is a threat to him and thus shoot him. It is only justifiable in situations where an individual is performing an illegal action that violates your rights/the rights of your families and its deemed that the murder is necessary to protect those rights from that illegal action.

    Such is not the case here, as the law allows for the murder of people performing a LEGAL action.

    Hey, if you manage to get abortion banned, and you want to try that killing an abortion doctor whose in the midst of attempting to get an illegal abortion in order to save your kid is justifiable homicide, I'd have less issue with it.

    But the fact is, abortion isn't illegal now, so I'm not for a law allowing someone to legally kill someone for performing a legal act.

    And this law doesn't do that, because this law allows for the loophole of claiming justifiable murder for killing someone who is doing it within the boundaries of the law.
    If you look at the substance of our posts you'll see that we don't disagree on anything, although the tone of your posts suggests otherwise.

    I would only point out that this is not a law yet. Please keep that in mind. SD has a history of protecting early abortion, so IMO there's little to worry about.

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Quote Originally Posted by diablo45 View Post
    there must be community colleges in your area even in the south....take some courses in history and philosophy (esp. plato and emm. kant) and you won't sound like a dumb hillbilly (or a candidate for the sa, 80 years late)
    One class I won't need is geography, because I know that although my state's name includes "south", that South Dakota is not in 'the south'. We're actually further north than California.



    While PHIL 100 - Introduction to Philosophy is available in my aria, that course is not apart of my Applied Technical Science Major.

    If you scroll down the page you'll see that one gen-ed requirement is SPCM 222 - Argumentation and Debate, who's discription reads:

    SPCM 222 - Argumentation and Debate
    Common Course Number & Description
    Explores argument as a communication activity, construction sound arguments in a variety of venues and analyzing the contribution of argument to public dialogue on contemporary issues.
    PreRequisite:
    3 semester hours
    I wonder if I could get a transcript from DP.....
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-18-11 at 12:43 AM.

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    One class I won't need is geography, because I know that although my state's name includes "south", that South Dakota is not in the south. We're actually further north than California.

    tru dat jerry, my mistake in thinking your arguments were from the sunny south....you simply sound like the welfare suckin, obams hatin of white folks from mississippi...who voted for orville faubus, ronald regan and george bush

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    Re: South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murde

    Quote Originally Posted by diablo45 View Post
    tru dat jerry, my mistake in thinking your arguments were from the sunny south....you simply sound like the welfare suckin, obams hatin of white folks from mississippi...who voted for orville faubus, ronald regan and george bush
    As opposed to your arguments sounding like the welfare sucking, tree-hugging, nanny-state, folks of all colors from California...who voted for Jimmy Carter, Woodrow Wilson and Barack Obama? Oh wait, nevermind...

    Moderator's Warning:
    South Dakota Justifiable Homicide Bill Under Fire as Critics Say It Invites Murder ofStick to the topic and cease with the attacks, be it personal, broad or overly generalized. Final warning.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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