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Thread: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

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    Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    He claims officials implied that his cooperation would make it easier for his Moroccan-born wife and child to join him in Germany.

    "Curveball" initially told his tales to the German secret service, and the information wound up in Secretary of State Colin Powell's speech in 2003 to the United Nations stating the case against Saddam Hussein.

    "Curveball" tells The Guardian that when he complained to his German handlers that they had violated an agreement not to pass his information to a third country, he was told not to speak and was placed in lockdown for about 90 days.
    Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi - A name quite hard to remember, but his codename, Curveball, will be remembered in infamy as the man who supplied the lies that enabled the Bush administration to invade Iraq. But is this Bush's fault? As the head of state, Bush is responsible, but I strongly believe that Bush acted upon what he thought was honest intel, and that he was betrayed by those who had a plan for a Pax-Americana, since the Soviet Union had dissolved, and a power vacuum existed at that time. The Neocon scheme was harebrained, but was attempted nonetheless.

    Bush was played, and given false information. I do not fault him for the decisions he made. In his shoes, I may have done the same. And Bush was highly pissed at being lied to, which is evidenced by the way he kicked the Neocons to the curb during the latter part of his second administration.

    IMHO, I believe that people are judging Bush too harshly. Yes, he is ultimately responsible for our going to war based on a lie, but we need to look at the larger picture. There were forces and ideologies in play which were anathema to the ideas of America and democracy.

    People laugh when they see Bush's "We won't be fooled again" gaffe, but was it really a gaffe? Bush was not fooled again, and got rid of many Neocons in his administration, and marginalized the rest. I just wish he has seen it sooner, but in his shoes, would I have? I am not too sure. I might have ended up going down the same exact road that Bush followed, had I been president. Saddam was a bad man, and it would have been so easy for me to believe the lies that I was told.

    That said, we can still say that the world is better off without Saddam, but was the loss of so many soldiers, along with the economic blowback that resulted from the invasion, worth it? I believe that this is the question that historians will be wrestling with for many years, but in the end, I do not believe that Bush will be judged as harshly as some judge him now. After all, Bush did act when he perceived a threat, and this is what the American people ask for in a president. The real villain here is Curveball, and the intel community, which chose to pass along what they knew were lies to Bush.

    Watching Colon Powell attempt to portray what turned out to be a fire department hook and ladder as a missile launcher was painful. Watching all the lies unravel was painful. Watching our troops die when they might not necessarily have had to was painful. Watching the erosion of our credibility in the world was painful. But this is to be laid at the feet of operatives who were not only appointed by Bush, but had been appointed by Clinton before him. Yes, this debacle could just have easily been committed by Clinton, had the timeline been different.

    The real issue here is about an intelligence community run amok, not about Bush, Clinton, or any other Commander in Chief. Such a screw up must never happen again. Rather than bash Bush, or whoever else may in power at any given time, I strongly believe that we should fix a broken information system instead.

    Finally, where in the hell was Congressional oversight on the events that led to the Iraq war? For those who are so keen to bash Bush, were is your outrage against Congress, who also had the same information?

    As for Bush, I forgive him. I know he cared. Let's move on and fix what is broken.

    Article is here.
    Last edited by danarhea; 02-15-11 at 02:26 PM.
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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    Whatever happened to "The buck stops here?" Bush's intelligence and advisors may have lied, but Bush bears the responsibility, and that is the big picture. We can't let our chief executive slide by because he fell in with the wrong crowd.

    I'll forgive Bush once he's stood trial for the war crime of torture, and not before.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 02-15-11 at 02:43 PM.

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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    This is going to stir the Bush lied for war wacko conspiracy theorists.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    There is a clear conflict of interests in the source of the information that should have raised red flags to everyone involved. No jury in their right mind would accept the testimony of an individual who clearly had something to gain from lying. As far as I'm concerned, they're all guilty of the same bull****.
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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This is going to stir the Bush lied for war wacko conspiracy theorists.
    I dunno dogg, still like to know where the WMDs are...

    So would Mr Rumsfeld

    Unless I misunderstood Bush... "he's got em"?

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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    Oh gheeze this crap again? Ok, what is it that the ADD, shinny object folks need to be distracted from seeing now?


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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This is going to stir the Bush lied for war wacko conspiracy theorists.
    It merely confirms the wackoness of those who are still denying Bush's culpability.
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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    IMO, this episode reaffirms the argument that policy making should rest on verification either through multiple source corroboration or additional credible evidence that confirms a source's account. Relying on a single source is inherently risky. While there is some risk that occasionally a single source might be correct, the benefits of rigorous verification typically outweighs the risks. In addition, it is absolutely imperative to develop an understanding of a source's motives. If an individual hates a given regime/leader, wants him/it toppled, he/she might well have motive to exaggerate his/her claims in trying to facilitate that desired outcome. All of this is a process issue.

    At the same time, when it comes to "surprise attacks," Congress needs to demand much more when it comes to military plans. It simply should not take plans at face value as they are presented. Congress should ask for the military planners to lay out various contingencies and scenarios. They should ask the planners to specifically identifical historical cases and references that relate to the country in question and the underlying assumptions of the strategy (e.g., in Iraq the risk of post-conflict insurgency was extremely high). They should run plans by experts (past military leaders who have been responsible for an area or had successfully devised and implemented plans for major operations. They should insist on being provided with budget estimates (a range rather than a point and the underlying assumptions). Authorization should probably be decided after Congress is satisfied with the plans, not before such plans have been devised, much less analyzed.

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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I dunno dogg, still like to know where the WMDs are...

    So would Mr Rumsfeld

    Unless I misunderstood Bush... "he's got em"?
    Wikileaks: WMD program existed in Iraq prior to US invasion - National public safety | Examiner.com
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Defector 'Curveball' admits he lied about Iraqi WMD

    our EOD guys were incinerating cannisters of nerve/mustard gas on a regular basis. sure we never found caches of thousands at any one time, but a dozen here a dozen there...it adds up.
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