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Silvio Berlusconi To Stand Trial

Grant said:
Are the laws in Italy is such a sad state that any political leader can change them at their own whim?
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YES! that is the bloody point! He has had a majority in the Parliament and Senate and has changed laws to fit his situation by giving himself immunity or by changing the law all together so to avoid prosecution. Alone the immunity issue took years to get rid off and all in the while he ran the country as he saw fit.

My understanding is that both parties have denied that any money exchanged hands. Who is actually making these charges?
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The wire taps of them. Ironically I believe the wire taps were part of a prostitution case and it snared the big man himself. They also have paperwork of payments from him via his aides to many women, many of which have a history of selling the bodies for sex.

You say he is as "corrupt as hell" but bring no evidence, just the usual gossip and speculation.
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Changing the law so to avoid court cases is not corruption any more?

Silvio Berlusconi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the "aquittal" ones..

(acquittal following the new law on the false accounting passed by the Berlusconi government)
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is mentioned A LOT!

Considering he is a Prime Minister of a country, the amount of cases against him is mind boggling.

You keep claiming he is corrupt but offer no hard evidence.
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Google it. Plenty of evidence out there.

And so what if he has "sex orgies" with prostitutes? Is that illegal in Italy or has Europe suddenly gone all puritan again?
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Nope, but how would you react if Bush 2 had sex orgies in the White House with GOP politicians and CEOs of big GOP doners, and all the women were paid for sex? Is that something you would accept?

If one man is able to put laws in place in Italy, or any European country, it seems that they have gone back to their bad old ways, and "sex orgies" should be the least of their worries.
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There is only one country where one man can do that.. and that is Italy and he has as I have shown. As for "going back to their bad old ways", what exactly does that mean.
 
PeteEU said:
YES! that is the bloody point! He has had a majority in the Parliament and Senate and has changed laws to fit his situation by giving himself immunity or by changing the law all together so to avoid prosecution. Alone the immunity issue took years to get rid off and all in the while he ran the country as he saw fit.
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OK, So "he" didn't actually do anything illegal because the majority in Parliament supported him. And of course he should run the country, with the approval of parliament, as he sees fit.
The wire taps of them. Ironically I believe the wire taps were part of a prostitution case and it snared the big man himself. They also have paperwork of payments from him via his aides to many women, many of which have a history of selling the bodies for sex.
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Is prostitution now illegal in Italy? Have the Italians recently become rather prudish when it comes to sex? I thought they were more sophisticated than that. Someone seems to be making a big fuss out of this and getting people all excited. Who's the loudest voice?

Changing the law so to avoid court cases is not corruption any more?
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Not if it is done legally. But you seem to be saying that the entire political system in Italy is corrupt.

Silvio Berlusconi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the "aquittal" ones..
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I see where he was found guilty of one crime but amnesty was applied. You seem to be implying that "acquittal" is the same as guilty.

Is he being recharged for any of those crimes?

My point is that because he was acquitted for one reason or another he shouldn't be tried now on trumped up charges because people are pissed with him. None of what you said should be related to whatever the charges are against him now. In fact there are laws in the democracies to protect us from whatever we have done in the past to be reintroduced at another trial for unrelated offenses. This also smacks of double jeopardy.
Considering he is a Prime Minister of a country, the amount of cases against him is mind boggling.
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That's true, but it could also mean he has a lot of political enemies who want to make mischief. I can certainly understand his competition in the media wouldn't mind demonizing him, though that is also speculation.


Google it. Plenty of evidence out there.
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You want to make claims and then have me investigate their veracity? Not likely.

Nope, but how would you react if Bush 2 had sex orgies in the White House with GOP politicians and CEOs of big GOP doners, and all the women were paid for sex? Is that something you would accept?
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No, i would find it irresponsible and wouldn't vote for him but that doesn't make it illegal. It is certainly, if true, poor judgment,
There is only one country where one man can do that.. and that is Italy and he has as I have shown. As for "going back to their bad old ways", what exactly does that mean.
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But you said earlier he had to have the majority in Parliament. Did the entire Parliament vote against him and he, as one man, was still able to change the law? Does Italy not have a proper Constitution?
 
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Grant said:
No, i would find it irresponsible and wouldn't vote for him but that doesn't make it illegal. It is certainly, if true, poor judgment,
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How would Chris Rock say it.... "I'm not saying that what Berlisconi did with a 17 year old sex pot was right ... but I understand!"
 
Ockham said:
How would Chris Rock say it.... "I'm not saying that what Berlisconi did with a 17 year old sex pot was right ... but I understand!"
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And how would Mrs Merton have put it? "Now, tell me Miss Mahroug, what was it about the billionaire Silvio Berlusconi that first attracted you to him?"
 
Andalublue said:
And how would Mrs Merton have put it? "Now, tell me Miss Mahroug, what was it about the billionaire Silvio Berlusconi that first attracted you to him?"
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Ahem.... touche. Apparently the benefit was mutual - I'm assuming.
 
He'll get away. They only put poor people in jail. Look at all the bankers who got away. The Supreme Court in Italy already delayed his corruption charges for bribery which should have taken place last year. The court ruled it would be too disruptive to pull Berlusconi from government last year so he received a delay. I'm not saying Italy is corrupt, just bad decision making. In the U.S. however, our legal system is much worse in enforcing judgements against the rich, high placed officials and police.
 
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Kane said:
He'll get away. They only put poor people in jail. Look at all the bankers who got away. The Supreme Court in Italy already delayed his corruption charges for bribery which should have taken place last year. The court ruled it would be too disruptive to pull Berlusconi from government last year so he received a delay. I'm not saying Italy is corrupt, just bad decision making. In the U.S. however, our legal system is much worse in enforcing judgements against the rich, high placed officials and police.
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Worse than Italy?

Can you give some examples?
 
We are way worse than most Western nations.

Bush/Cheney got away. OJ (but Clinton was witch hunted.) Patrick Fitzgerald botched the WH probe, not by accident. The 9-11 Commission, the Warren Report, police get off for shootings and beatings etc. How about the red scare in the 50's and blacklists?

Now the TV news is trying to exonerate Kircher in the media, by slandering Italy.
 
Kane said:
We are way worse than most Western nations.

Bush/Cheney got away. OJ (but Clinton was witch hunted.) Patrick Fitzgerald botched the WH probe, not by accident. The 9-11 Commission, the Warren Report, police get off for shootings and beatings etc. How about the red scare in the 50's and blacklists?

Now the TV news is trying to exonerate Kircher in the media, by slandering Italy.
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LOL!! Yes, how about the red scare in the 50's and blacklists!

Why don't you make a citizens arrest of Bush and Cheney and charge them with something?
 
Grant said:
OK, So "he" didn't actually do anything illegal because the majority in Parliament supported him. And of course he should run the country, with the approval of parliament, as he sees fit.


Is prostitution now illegal in Italy? Have the Italians recently become rather prudish when it comes to sex? I thought they were more sophisticated than that. Someone seems to be making a big fuss out of this and getting people all excited. Who's the loudest voice?
Not if it is done legally. But you seem to be saying that the entire political system in Italy is corrupt.



I see where he was found guilty of one crime but amnesty was applied. You seem to be implying that "acquittal" is the same as guilty.

Is he being recharged for any of those crimes?

My point is that because he was acquitted for one reason or another he shouldn't be tried now on trumped up charges because people are pissed with him. None of what you said should be related to whatever the charges are against him now. In fact there are laws in the democracies to protect us from whatever we have done in the past to be reintroduced at another trial for unrelated offenses. This also smacks of double jeopardy.


That's true, but it could also mean he has a lot of political enemies who want to make mischief. I can certainly understand his competition in the media wouldn't mind demonizing him, though that is also speculation.




You want to make claims and then have me investigate their veracity? Not likely.



No, i would find it irresponsible and wouldn't vote for him but that doesn't make it illegal. It is certainly, if true, poor judgment,

But you said earlier he had to have the majority in Parliament. Did the entire Parliament vote against him and he, as one man, was still able to change the law? Does Italy not have a proper Constitution?
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as naive a list as i can imagine being fed to freddo in godfather I
 
Troubadour said:
Yes, and I envy the Italians their ability to hold leaders accountable - George W. Bush publicly admitted torturing people, and walks around a free man without a care in the world. US Republicans would probably murder any prosecutors who tried to go after him and Cheney.
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Who in the hell are you kidding, if there was a chance in hell of getting Bush for such a thing, you looned up liberals would have already had him in court.

The wide eyed liberals can't accept the fact that there is nothing there to charge him with, with 2 full years of total control of the government, the looney tuners could find nothing...... I guess you figure if you keep saying it long enough … someone will believe the nonsense spewed from frothing mouths.
 
The Barbarian said:
Who in the hell are you kidding, if there was a chance in hell of getting Bush for such a thing, you looned up liberals would have already had him in court.
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I kind of think that was the point Troubadour was making.
 
Manc Skipper said:
A fascist sleazeball on many levels.

Imagine a US president personally phoning a police station to get an underage prostitute of his aquaintance freed from a theft charge.
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-laughing- yeah .. almost like going on national TV and calling an entire police dept. stupid … while knowing nothing about what took place ….
 
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The Barbarian said:
-laughing- yeah .. almost like going on national TV and calling an entire police dept. stupid … while knowing nothing about what took place ….
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It must be awful to have a president who'd say all kinds of stupid things, like...

1. "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur."

2. "If you say you're going to do something and don't do it, that's trustworthiness."

3. "Justice ought to be fair."

4. "If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow."

5. "Reading is the basics for all learning."

6. "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"

7. "The important question is, how many hands have I shaked?"

8. "September the 4th, 2001, I stood in the ruins of the Twin Towers. It's a day I will never forget."

9. "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

10. "I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office."
 
Andalublue said:
It must be awful to have a president who'd say all kinds of stupid things, like...

1. "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur."

2. "If you say you're going to do something and don't do it, that's trustworthiness."

3. "Justice ought to be fair."

4. "If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow."

5. "Reading is the basics for all learning."

6. "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"

7. "The important question is, how many hands have I shaked?"

8. "September the 4th, 2001, I stood in the ruins of the Twin Towers. It's a day I will never forget."

9. "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

10. "I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office."
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laughing .. I know and the hits just keep right on coming don't they?

"No, no. I have been practicing...I bowled a 129. It's like -- it was like Special Olympics, or something."

The reforms we seek would bring greater competition, choice, savings and inefficiencies to our health care system." -

"What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith...


"Let me be absolutely clear. Israel is a strong friend of Israel's.”

"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today”

"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go."
 
Jetboogieman said:
Americans don't like to vote in Smart Politicians because it makes them feel stupid...
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Supposedly the bunch in the White House is the best and brightest according to the liberal pundits. If this is good as it gets, we're in deep ****.
 
Ockham said:
Supposedly the bunch in the White House is the best and brightest according to the liberal pundits. If this is good as it gets, we're in deep ****.
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I was speaking more in general, however one must admit, there is a very anti-intellectual vibe I get from American Politics...
 
Ockham said:
Supposedly the bunch in the White House is the best and brightest according to the liberal pundits. If this is good as it gets, we're in deep ****.
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Well I keep hearing some conservatives railing against "liberal intellectual elites", so maybe politicians need to start getting dumber.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I was speaking more in general, however one must admit, there is a very anti-intellectual vibe I get from American Politics...
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Where are you posting from, Jetboogieman? I'd like to familiarize myself with some political intellectuals.
 
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