Page 24 of 47 FirstFirst ... 14222324252634 ... LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 466

Thread: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

  1. #231
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Have you read American non-Thinker? Seriously?
    Also irrelevant, no evidence no links, no reference. Your failure to back up your point makes you credible how again?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, and I have mentioned how in two ways.
    And I've mentioned 4 ways it's detrimental, irresponsible and will ultimately cost more, errode quality and impinge liberty and freedom. I've addressed your two ways, and you cannot address mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    However, you sung the praises of competition and the market place. I addressed that directly.
    As did I and I provided you a scientific and Emipircal research paper which shows compeitition in the market place improves quality. Not only did I defend it, I settled it. You're argument is ignorant in the face of the facts and therefore irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they don't. Many working people are not covered by insurance and can't afford proper care.
    That people cannot pay doesn't mean they do not have access. Every single person, man, woman, child has access.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why? It was inaccurate.
    It was factual as well as accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    First, I repeat, if you can't afford it, quality is of no concern. No access, quality is irrelevent.
    All people in the U.S. have access. You seem to be conffusing "access" with "ability to pay".


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    However, for your reading:

    There is little evidence or any relationship, either positive or negative, between competition and medical care . . .

    JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
    I've provided evidence. You're little parrot author should read more. See the prior link for reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Some studies show increased competition leading to increased quality, and some show the opposite. While this may appear surprising, it is not. Economic theory predicts that quality may either increase or decrease with increased competition when firms are setting both the quality and price.
    What "some studies" -- link please?
    What "economic theory" -- link please?

    Refer to the prior Empirical study pdf link from 2006.



    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley
    http://www.ftc.gov/be/healthcare/wp/...andQuality.pdf

    "I do not survey
    the health services research literature on quality, in
    particular the literature on outcomes research. That
    literature is primarily concerned with measurement,
    as opposed to assessing the impact of competition.
    Romano (2003) provides an excellent review of this
    literature."
    From your own link (above); therefore, your link is irrelevant - as is most of your arugment thus far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley
    I read your statement as saying the a larger force was less effective, and I said, yes. Less effective. I was calling for a smaller more mobile and more tactically designed for modern concerns. You were taking acception, meaning you wanted a larger force. So, no, I did not say I wanted a less effective military.
    Actually I said nothing of a larger force, actually the opposite. Youre claim is you want smaller and less effective, I want smaller and more effective. You should now admit your mistake and move on. I can pound on your own words all day long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley
    Again no. And you should understand that by now.
    What's hard to understand is your inconsistency. First you want less effective, then you claim you never said that. When I quote your own words, you backpeddle. When I point out now the third time, you want less effectiveness in the military and more effectiveness in healthcare and the obvious risk that poses to anyone who understands the World Wars of the 20th century. Perhaps that's my error in assuming your familiar with either of the World Wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley
    Now you're just being silly.
    I'd like to see it as "realistic" given the lack of spirited or competent discussion from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley
    The point is, I accept a progressive tax, have no problem paying more than others. You have not presented any facts that address that at all.
    So no evidence then that you're paying more by choice?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #232
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Also irrelevant, no evidence no links, no reference. Your failure to back up your point makes you credible how again?
    Link what? This requires the ability to think.

    And I've mentioned 4 ways it's detrimental, irresponsible and will ultimately cost more, errode quality and impinge liberty and freedom. I've addressed your two ways, and you cannot address mine.
    Mine were more specific. I don't doubt there are some benefits to competition. Have never argued other wise. But we have seen rent-to-own with comeptition, we're seen inferior products created with compeitition as well. It is not magic, and it does not matter at all to someone who can't afford it.

    That people cannot pay doesn't mean they do not have access. Every single person, man, woman, child has access.
    Yes, it does. If I cannot aford to pay for food, to get food, I do not have a full stomach.

    It was factual as well as accurate.
    It was neither. Sorry.

    All people in the U.S. have access. You seem to be conffusing "access" with "ability to pay".
    No, I'm not the least bit confusing anything. If I cannot pay, I don't get the service, so I don't have access.

    I've provided evidence. You're little parrot author should read more. See the prior link for reference.
    No, on the specific issue you have not. Sorry.


    Actually I said nothing of a larger force, actually the opposite. Youre claim is you want smaller and less effective, I want smaller and more effective. You should now admit your mistake and move on. I can pound on your own words all day long.
    If you did not, your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

    What's hard to understand is your inconsistency. First you want less effective, then you claim you never said that. When I quote your own words, you backpeddle. When I point out now the third time, you want less effectiveness in the military and more effectiveness in healthcare and the obvious risk that poses to anyone who understands the World Wars of the 20th century. Perhaps that's my error in assuming your familiar with either of the World Wars.
    Look, you're being dishonest. Either I misread you, or you haven't read all the comments. Either way, this should be put to rest by now. Stop being silly.

    I'd like to see it as "realistic" given the lack of spirited or competent discussion from you.
    Tell yourself what you must.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #233
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Link what? This requires the ability to think.
    It requires you to back up your accusation. You failed to do that and continue to fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Mine were more specific. I don't doubt there are some benefits to competition. Have never argued other wise.
    Ahh... yeah ya did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But we have seen rent-to-own with comeptition, we're seen inferior products created with compeitition as well. It is not magic, and it does not matter at all to someone who can't afford it.
    You continue to confuse accessibility with the the economics of "affording" something. Inferior products, as my study summary and methodology shows drives down instances of inferior products and increases good to very good products / services. The person's ability to afford something has no connection to accessibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, it does. If you cannot aford to pay for food, to get food, I do not have a full stomach.
    You still have access to the food. Causational fallacy aside, access and ability to pay are not the same thing. Get it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It was neither. Sorry.
    It was both. What's sorry is your inability to comprehend it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I'm not the least bit confusing anything. If I cannot pay, I don't get the service, so I don't have access.
    You don't get it yet.

    The ability to pay has no effect on access. You can access a store by walking through the front door. You have access to inspect, look at, even take those items via that access - even if you have no money to pay for them. No one is stopping access. The ability to pay is the responsibility of the individual.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, on the specific issue you have not. Sorry.
    Not only have I provided it, it's settled. You lost the point. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you did not, your comment makes no sense whatsoever.
    So by your double negative I did and it made sense. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Look, you're being dishonest.
    Not only am I being honest, I've proven it to you in post after post. Your obstinate dis- ingenuousness at avoiding and otherwise changing the topic, denying statements you clearly already made is entertainment beyond my wildest dreams. I can watch this tap dance all day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Either I misread you, or you haven't read all the comments. Either way, this should be put to rest by now.
    I put your argument to rest 3 posts ago, you're still hanging on trying to save face.

    Please continue... can't wait for the next episode.
    Last edited by Ockham; 02-17-11 at 12:53 PM. Reason: fix quote
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #234
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If I cannot pay, I don't get the service, so I don't have access.
    university of virginia study cited by asa---americans with NO INSURANCE receive BETTER medical treatment than folks on medicaid, the ghetto of health care

    links already provided

    maybe your obsession with fantasies is getting in the way of your actually knowing what's going on around you?

    either way, cheers

  5. #235
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It requires you to back up your accusation. You failed to do that and continue to fail.
    As has been done everytime such an article has come up.

    Ahh... yeah ya did.
    No I didn't. I said it doesn't assure quality in all cases, and gave examples. Not that competition was overall a bad thing for everything. Learn to make proper distinctions.

    You continue to confuse accessibility with the the economics of "affording" something. Inferior products, as my study summary and methodology shows drives down instances of inferior products and increases good to very good products / services. The person's ability to afford something has no connection to accessibility.
    No, I don't. You make a distinction without a difference. There is no access if you can't afford it. A person who can't afford to eat, starves. A person who can't afford to ride walks. A person without the ability to pay for health care goes without. Access means being able to recieve the care. If you can't pay for it, you can't recieve it.

    You still have access to the food. Causational fallacy aside, access and ability to pay are not the same thing. Get it yet?
    No, you don't get it. Not sure if you're making this mistake on purpose, trying to avoid the point, or if you really jjust don't understand.

    The ability to pay has no effect on access. You can access a store by walking through the front door. You have access to inspect, look at, even take those items via that access - even if you have no money to pay for them. No one is stopping access. The ability to pay is the responsibility of the individual.
    Yes, it does. What you can't for you can't access, no matter the cause.

    Not only have I provided it, it's settled. You lost the point. Sorry.
    Tell yourself what you must.

    Not only am I being honest, I've proven it to you in post after post. Your obstinate dis- ingenuousness at avoiding and otherwise changing the topic, denying statements you clearly already made is entertainment beyond my wildest dreams. I can watch this tap dance all day.
    Agan, you didn't. I explain my comment and asked you read all comments.

    I put your argument to rest 3 posts ago, you're still hanging on trying to save face.

    Please continue... can't wait for the next episode.
    You're funny.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #236
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    university of virginia study cited by asa---americans with NO INSURANCE receive BETTER medical treatment than folks on medicaid, the ghetto of health care

    links already provided

    maybe your obsession with fantasies is getting in the way of your actually knowing what's going on around you?

    either way, cheers
    You serious with those lies? If you have no insurance, you do not receive care... unless it is a medical emergency. What are you smoking? If you have cancer and you don't have insurance, oh well. They will stabalize you, but that's it.

    Here, read about your options if you don't have insurance and get diagnosed with cancer:

    Cancer Support Community - If You Do Not Have Health Insurance
    If you or a loved one has already been diagnosed with cancer and is uninsured, ask to speak with an oncology social worker or financial counselor at the facility that provided the diagnosis. These individuals should be able to guide you through the process of obtaining treatment. Some who are uninsured are able to set up payment plans, or negotiate a discounted payment with the treating facility. Others may qualify for Medicaid, county medical care or hospital charity care. Depending on the state in which you live, you may also have access to a high-risk insurance pool.
    Aka nothing. "You can set up payment plans"? Yeah right. If you are able to put down a major down payment.

  7. #237
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As has been done everytime such an article has come up.
    Where's the link to AT Boo... still waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No I didn't.
    Sure you did.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I don't. You make a distinction without a difference. There is no access if you can't afford it.
    See my last post, the part about access to the store analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, you don't get it. Not sure if you're making this mistake on purpose, trying to avoid the point, or if you really jjust don't understand.
    The funny part is, it's you who don't understand. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, it does. What you can't for you can't access, no matter the cause.
    Apparently you don't know what the word "access" means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Tell yourself what you must.
    I don't have to tell myself anything... myself already knows. It's only you who know but cannot accept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Agan, you didn't. I explain my comment and asked you read all comments.
    Sorry, I did. I avidly read your posts - but sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're funny.
    Even funnier since I'm right.

    Ok bored now... let me know if you want more... I've got plenty left and like I said, watching you tap dance is hella entertaining.
    Last edited by Ockham; 02-17-11 at 02:52 PM. Reason: fixed quotes
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #238
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    uva studied 40259 medicaid patients and 24035 with no insurance, looking at those who underwent lung resections, escophagectomies, colectomies, pancreatectomies, gastrectomies, abdominal aortic aneurism repairs, hip replacements and coronary artery bypasses

    after controlling for age, gender, income, geographic region, operation, and 30 comorbid conditions, uva found that americans with NO INSURANCE experience shorter stays, lower costs and lower mortality rates than those whose primary payer status is medicaid

    ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations

  9. #239
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    uva studied 40259 medicaid patients and 24035 with no insurance, looking at those who underwent lung resections, escophagectomies, colectomies, pancreatectomies, gastrectomies, abdominal aortic aneurism repairs, hip replacements and coronary artery bypasses

    after controlling for age, gender, income, geographic region, operation, and 30 comorbid conditions, uva found that americans with NO INSURANCE experience shorter stays, lower costs and lower mortality rates than those whose primary payer status is medicaid

    ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations
    This study looked at one slice of health care. These are specific surgery's, and while it does show some issues with Medicaid, it does not give a full scope picture of what uninsured people face. I don't see anything on there about procedures that are not emergencies and necessary medications.

    I agree though, Medicaid is a mess.

  10. #240
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Listen to yourself, what makes you an expert on the rich people and what they need or don't need? How did the rich make anything off you? You don't seem to have a clue who carries the tax burden now. Maybe this will help but I doubt it.
    How did the rich make their money? They make it off of the backs of everyone else. Also, currently money flows uphill. The more money you have, the easier it is to make money and the more money you should have in the future. Where as, the less money you have, the harder it is to make money and the more likely of future hardships.

    The top 1% of wage earners make 20% of all income and pay 38% of all taxes.
    The top 5% of wage earners make 34.7% of all income and pay 58.7% of all taxes.
    The top 10% of wage earners make 45.8% of all income and pay 69.9% of all taxes.

    The bottom 50% make 12.8% of all income and pay 2.7% of all taxes.
    I don't know about those numbers. I am pretty sure the top earners make a larger percentage of the nations total income. Also, as I showed recently, they generally pay a marginal tax rate of around 17% in an aggregate study performed by the IRS.

    Pretty simply you cut anything that is currently being funded at the state level i.e. Education, Energy, Commerce, EPA. Medicare and Medicaid aren't paid out of Federal Income taxes and have their own taxes. take them and SS off budget and put them back where they belong, a lock box.
    So we are in agreement that Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security need to remain untouched and should be off the block since they have their own system of funding and are not causing the deficit to rise. There's a start.

    As far as cutting all of those agencies... you could. In fact, you'd have to if you want to keep taxes lowered. However, most of those programs run fairly efficiently already so cutting them more is basically debilitating them. Non defense discretionary spending is the most cut and most trend category of all expenditures. There is not much belt room there.

    So you can end all of those services, I suppose. I think you'd find that to be more harmful than good, but that's my opinion (they were started for a reason). Personally, I'd just let the Bush tax cuts expire and possibly raise them a bit more for the top earners. Something tells me the top income bracket will make it out ok.

    You will see what the GOP is going to cut soon. Why doesn't the President do what he is supposed to do, lead?
    The president has. He proposed a budget cut that GOP mocked. Unfortunately, the GOP forgot that it is almost the exact same budget proposal that they themselves put forwards.

    It's a crazy world we live in.

Page 24 of 47 FirstFirst ... 14222324252634 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •