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Thread: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    I agree! I havea no idea what they were thinking when they agreed to extend the tax cuts! Who cares if the GOP stuck together and filibuster future bills? They'll just look like idiots who hurt the country by stopping progress because they lost control of the executive and legislative branch.

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I agree! I havea no idea what they were thinking when they agreed to extend the tax cuts! Who cares if the GOP stuck together and filibuster future bills? They'll just look like idiots who hurt the country by stopping progress because they lost control of the executive and legislative branch.
    Just another liberal that doesn't understand that spending causes debt, not tax cuts. Allowing people to keep more of what they earn allows them to need LESS of that so called liberal help that everyone talks about. Suggest you try applying your own personal finances to the Federal Govt. You have less money coming in you cut spending. Why should the govt. be different? Instead of worrying about who pays what in taxes why aren't you concerned about how the govt. spends the money they get or the 47% of the income earners that don't pay any Federal Income taxes. Are you one of those?

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    republicans were elected in record numbers last november precisely to stop all the "progress"

    republicans were rewarded for their united, principled and professional repetition of NO

    american politics is not about wishes coming true, it's about MUSCLE

    obama is emasculated

    embarrassed yet?

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Just another liberal that doesn't understand that spending causes debt, not tax cuts. Allowing people to keep more of what they earn allows them to need LESS of that so called liberal help that everyone talks about. Suggest you try applying your own personal finances to the Federal Govt. You have less money coming in you cut spending. Why should the govt. be different? Instead of worrying about who pays what in taxes why aren't you concerned about how the govt. spends the money they get or the 47% of the income earners that don't pay any Federal Income taxes. Are you one of those?
    Actually, having less income than expenditure causes debt. Income - Expenses = Net Income/Net Loss.

    There is a relationship there, bud.

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Actually, having less income than expenditure causes debt. Income - Expenses = Net Income/Net Loss.

    There is a relationship there, bud.
    Right, so let's just assume that tax cuts cut govt. revenue which the Treasury shows didn't happen but if it did and you had less revenue coming in than you expected what would you do to spending? Why is it that liberals never question how the money is spent but instead worry about how much more money the govt. can get?

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right, so let's just assume that tax cuts cut govt. revenue which the Treasury shows didn't happen but if it did and you had less revenue coming in than you expected what would you do to spending? Why is it that liberals never question how the money is spent but instead worry about how much more money the govt. can get?
    Because I feel like the rich don't pay enough. They make money off of the backs of hard-working Americans and then don't put the money back into the pot to sustain the country they live off of.

    I am not entirely opposed to cuts and streamlining government programs, however. Which programs do you think you would cut the most? Defense? Where? Medicare/Medicaid? Where? As has been discussed, non defense discretionary spending gets hacked at all the time so it is pretty efficient and tight around the waist already. It can be cut more, but not much without crippling the programs and ruining their purpose.

    So what would you cut? Paul Ryan hasn't answered this yet.

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    whysoserious;1059289678]Because I feel like the rich don't pay enough. They make money off of the backs of hard-working Americans and then don't put the money back into the pot to sustain the country they live off of.
    Listen to yourself, what makes you an expert on the rich people and what they need or don't need? How did the rich make anything off you? You don't seem to have a clue who carries the tax burden now. Maybe this will help but I doubt it.

    The top 1% of wage earners make 20% of all income and pay 38% of all taxes.
    The top 5% of wage earners make 34.7% of all income and pay 58.7% of all taxes.
    The top 10% of wage earners make 45.8% of all income and pay 69.9% of all taxes.

    The bottom 50% make 12.8% of all income and pay 2.7% of all taxes.

    Currently approximately 47% of all Americans pay nothing and actually get money back making their tax rate negative.


    I am not entirely opposed to cuts and streamlining government programs, however. Which programs do you think you would cut the most? Defense? Where? Medicare/Medicaid? Where? As has been discussed, non defense discretionary spending gets hacked at all the time so it is pretty efficient and tight around the waist already. It can be cut more, but not much without crippling the programs and ruining their purpose.
    Pretty simply you cut anything that is currently being funded at the state level i.e. Education, Energy, Commerce, EPA. Medicare and Medicaid aren't paid out of Federal Income taxes and have their own taxes. take them and SS off budget and put them back where they belong, a lock box.

    So what would you cut? Paul Ryan hasn't answered this yet
    You will see what the GOP is going to cut soon. Why doesn't the President do what he is supposed to do, lead?

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Because I feel like the rich don't pay enough. They make money off of the backs of hard-working Americans and then don't put the money back into the pot to sustain the country they live off of.
    Ok, so I'm going to provide the names of 5 very very rich people. You tell me how they are making money off the backs of hard-working Americans and don't put money back into the pot:

    Paul S. Otellini
    Michael Bloomberg
    Quentin Tarantino
    Sean John Combs
    Ralph Lauren
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    No thread - no link, and you mentioned the Weekly Standard which is not AT. So again, irrelevant.
    Have you read American non-Thinker? Seriously?

    Wrong. You're singing the praises of a Single Payer health system, so it's incumbent on YOU to show it makes things better. I'm simply stating the obvious falsehoods of a Single Payer health system and have provided the reasons why a bureaucratic system will fail and have failed. You brought up free markets not me. You've not bothered to defend the obvious failure of a single payer system so I can only assume there is no defense, therefore your red herring about competition and accessibility is a complete failure. I'm not biting on the obvious distraction.
    Yes, and I have mentioned how in two ways. 1) Better access 2) costs less. We pay more than any other country and have less access than many.

    However, you sung the praises of competition and the market place. I addressed that directly. You made the claim, but don't want to defend it.


    All people have access today. There is no law, no force preventing access.
    No, they don't. Many working people are not covered by insurance and can't afford proper care. So, factually, you're simply wrong. And throwing int he law thing is a red herring in that no one argued or stated there was a law preventing anything. Cost prevents, lack of coverage prevents, not law.

    See prior post.
    Why? It was inaccurate.

    Competition provides quality, as those private businesses who do not perform are not used, and go out of business. As well, the more competition there is, the higher the quality of said products, and the less likely for mediocre products. But this is old news... from 2006:
    First, I repeat, if you can't afford it, quality is of no concern. No access, quality is irrelevent.

    However, for your reading:

    There is little evidence or any relationship, either positive or negative, between competition and medical care . . .

    JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

    Some studies show increased competition leading to increased quality, and some show the opposite. While this may appear surprising, it is not. Economic theory predicts that quality may either increase or decrease with increased competition when firms are setting both the quality and price.
    http://www.ftc.gov/be/healthcare/wp/...andQuality.pdf




    Look back at post #207, middle of the page, it's right there.
    I read your statement as saying the a larger force was less effective, and I said, yes. Less effective. I was calling for a smaller more mobile and more tactically designed for modern concerns. You were taking acception, meaning you wanted a larger force. So, no, I did not say I wanted a less effective military.


    So going back to your previous statement, you then believe a less effective military is the right tool? Yet, I still have to go back to your single payer statement --- you want healthcare to be more efficient, but the military to be less effective, and you don't deny saying that....
    Again no. And you should understand that by now.

    My error was assuming you could carry on a conversation. You apparently didn't know Vietnam was not a World War, yet you ignore WWI and WWII and you do not address the risk as I've pointed it out. Therefore not only are incorrect but you've been misled - and tragically so. I hope you've learned your lesson.
    Now you're just being silly.


    And you finished off silly. The point is, I accept a progressive tax, have no problem paying more than others. You have not presented any facts that address that at all.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama's FY 2012 Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh come on...There are opinion sites on both sides of the isle, and it could easily be pointed out that many on the liberal side of many issues rely much more on sites like DailyKOS, MediaMatters, and MoveOn.org for their information, not to mention getting their news from Jon Stewart than that of the right. It shows that something must be correct with AT when thou doth protest too much.
    Difference is I'm not putting up Move.org opinions and treating them like they're serious argument. I don't throw out the conservatives are fascist arguments. And Jon Stewart is a comedian, and not anything more. Humor can show insight. But even he, a mere comedian, doesn't mimic the AT and call all conservatives fascists.

    Medicare has an unfunded liability somewhere in the hundreds of Trillions of dollars now, how would essentially expanding that model to cover everyone result in anything but failure of the system in true Cloward and Piven fashion, and bankruptcy?
    Because it's flaw is that it doesn't cover everyone. It only covers those most likely to be ill. Having a single payer, with everyone paying premiums to one source, this would create the revenue to cover the costs, thus funding it.


    Stop Nation Building, I agree, although in the past I defended strongly what we did in Iraq, it is clearly now a losing situation, and a money pit.
    Better late than never I suppose.

    You can't turn back the clock, so can we talk about the here and now please?
    I guess I will leave the apst when we've learned from it. However, the point is that leaving is much more difficult than not going in. So, expecting an hasty exit is not realistic.


    Ok, and as we do that, who fills the vacuum? And with downsizing the military, are you suggesting only an isolationist stance toward our security?
    Isolation? No. But not imperialist either. Countries are allowed to follow their own destiney, even if we don't like it. We don't rule the world. We participate, argue, and when necessary, based on an act, defense, we use force. But we don't pre-emptively invade for any reason other than an eminent threat, stopping ongoing genocide (not 12 years after it happened), or stop an active aggressive act.

    I've been there too friend, so let's not think for a minute that I don't understand what it is to worry how to keep a roof over my head, or food on the table. With that said all I can see that the "progressive tax" has done is create the zero liability voter, and caused one side to ruin this country for that voter.
    I disagree. What has ruined this country, if it is ruin (something I dispute) would ahve more to do with an uninformed, too easily manipulated electorate. As the head of our local republican party office said to me, he doesn't want everyone to vote, he wants informed and critical thinkers to vote. He has a point.


    I have worked 70 to 90 per week for the past 30 years, and taken three actual vacations. Shall we compare balance sheets?
    I think you're missing the point. That's what a lot of us do, and there is nothing wrong with it.

    Well, then rather than outlets like MSNBC devoting much of their time looking for the next way to bash Sarah Palin, they should start getting the facts out there so people can make an educated opinion.
    Sarah sets herself up. She's news because she steps out there and says wild ****. Don't blame anyone in a profit based news system for takng advantage of her gifts. You might ask her to stop.

    And the polls would include conservative polls. Just saying . . .


    I'd like that if it could ever happen. In fact should you find yourself ever near the Greenville SC area, let me know, and my home is open.j-mac
    I'll keep that in mind. And if you make it to mid north Iowa, let me know.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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