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Thread: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Peeps wanna hate on Trump but he was never "really" bankrupt and is always on Top.
    No... bankrupting a company is very different from a person bankrupting... closing down shop can represent a huge sum of liquid funds even though the company was failure.

    I'm sure trumps a decent guy, and he is successful in his own right... but he is a public figure and ripe for attacks...

    That said, he's far more of a political newcomer the Paul is, and well... Dr Paul has won a series of positions in elections throughout his career, in other words, Trump is the new guy in town, at least as far as 'electability' is concerned.

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    i wonder what would be the national reaction be if a person like, say, sarah palin or glenn beck ever said "the animals are coming" or "gays aren't concerned with living past 50, they like the attention they get from having aids"

    values

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    i wonder what would be the national reaction be if a person like, say, sarah palin or glenn beck ever said "the animals are coming" or "gays aren't concerned with living past 50, they like the attention they get from having aids"

    values
    Ron Paul said that? I just thought he was crazy.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Anyway, then they turn to Dr Paul, and ask a question like "are you electable?" Might as well ask "what are you doing here??"... NOT because he's not holding himself to republican values, but because he would interfere with those "in name only"s agenda. Or he answered a question about pulling out troops and what's his name steps up and is like 'oh but 9-11... 9-11 and 9-11, you should apologize'.
    As there had been low expectations concerning Congressman Paul's debate performance, that question afforded him a breakthrough opportunity. At the time of the debate, the nation was embroiled in a financial crisis, there were major challenges in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc. Congressman Paul could have rebutted the question by stating that although his positions appear to be outside the "mainstream" (the reason the question was asked in the first place), they are, in his view, what is needed given the nation's time of crisis. The common thread that draws the nation's foreign and domestic policy challenges together is the issue of sustainability. He could have pointed out the financial crisis's roots in overleverage/excessive debt and then highlighted the nation's worsening medium- and long-term fiscal outlook. He could have argued that at a time of looming fiscal resource challenges, the nation needed a smarter, more effective, and less costly foreign policy. He could have argued that overreach would both compromise the nation's foreign policy interests and help exhaust its finances.

    He could also have rebutted Mayor Giuliani's references about 9/11 by invoking President Roosevelt's quote about having nothing to fear but fear itself. He could have asserted that fear-driven decision making is especially dangerous, as it sacrifices objectivity and reason that are crucial to sound decision making. He could affirmed that he favored a focused and firm counterterrorism response, but only opposed fear-driven responses that were increasingly removed from the nation's founding principles, not well-targeted against the terrorists responsible for 9/11, and consuming enormous fiscal resources at a time of economic crisis.

    The question was a huge opening and he blew it. Instead, he offered a weak and superficial response about blowback. Although blowback (or in more generic terms feedback) is a real factor tied to any decision making/policy making, it is not the major, much less leading reason the nation faces substantial foreign policy/national security challenges. It is one contributor that amplifies those challenges. Ideology, clashing interests, the shfiting balance of power, etc., are all major drivers of the foreign policy environment. He could even have juxtaposed the fear-driven financial panic that was underway during the debate and likened some of the nation's policy responses to 9/11 as representing a policy panic of sorts.

    None of those arguments required him to sacrifice his core principles. They would have allowed him to strike an approach that seemed balanced and reasonable in tackling the nation's great challenges. However, he did not take that course. Instead, he largely circumvented the question, repeating longstanding thoughts, and came across as overly simplistic, uncertain, and worse. That's not the media's fault.

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ron Paul said that? I just thought he was crazy.
    Maybe he said that. Ron Paul '90s newsletters rant against blacks, gays - CNN

    Short version: a Ron Paul newsletter contained some racist comments, Paul claims he did not write them and did not know they where in the newsletter. Paul admitted responsibility but denied being a racist.

    Not sure on the gay comment, I can find no reference to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Maybe he said that. Ron Paul '90s newsletters rant against blacks, gays - CNN

    Short version: a Ron Paul newsletter contained some racist comments, Paul claims he did not write them and did not know they where in the newsletter. Paul admitted responsibility but denied being a racist.

    Not sure on the gay comment, I can find no reference to it.
    This is the best part of that part:

    Libertarians are incapable of being a racist, because racism is a collectivist idea.
    Lol... forget whether or not he's racist. He's bat **** insane.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is the best part of that part:



    Lol... forget whether or not he's racist. He's bat **** insane.
    My theory: we don't need to go after him for being racist. He may be, but the fact he is bat**** insane is enough and more than enough to be against him.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ok, do you remember his campaign back in 2008??
    As a Ron Paul voter, yes. And I don't think it was a "Conspiracy".

    Anyway, then they turn to Dr Paul, and ask a question like "are you electable?" Might as well ask "what are you doing here??"... NOT because he's not holding himself to republican values, but because he would interfere with those "in name only"s agenda. Or he answered a question about pulling out troops and what's his name steps up and is like 'oh but 9-11... 9-11 and 9-11, you should apologize'.
    I don't remember everyone just getting cookie cutter questions, and I don't think the question was uncalled for with Ron Paul. Already at that time he would've been one of the oldest people running on a major party ticket for their first term, which would be a strike against him. On the larger political scale he was a relative unknown. Senators tend to have a hard time being elected President, congressmen have never had it happen. Its a legitimate question to ask him.

    His problem with his statement on the troops was his OWN doing, and is a symptom of Ron Paul being unable to function in the current political climate on the national stage. His answers, his views, are nuanced things that take significant time to explain in detail to individuals who are not relatively well versed in politics. This simply is not condusive to how national politics are covered in this country, and that's been that way for far longer than simply 2008. Someone being unable to adapt their style to the arena they're entering is their own fault, not some conspiracy against them.

    He was called crazy, a kook, they called him unpatriotic, racist, everything... yet, when he continuously won in the polls, the news anchors would claim that 'it must have been his one fan clicking the button over and over'... then he was no longer included...
    Are you suggesting others in the primary weren't attacked? You had McCain being called out of touch, liberal, a rhino, etc as well. The News Anchors were using LOGIC with regards to the polls....notice that despite Ron Paul winning tons of ONLINE polls he routinely and continually came in towards the middle to end of the voting in each state. Obviously that must've been a giant conspiracy to keep the droves of poll voters away....or perhaps he had a more animated internet base with more computer savy on manipulating online polls. Its not a conspiracy, its common sense.

    If it is not a 'conspiracy', then it's because they all independently decided to attack Ron Paul simply because he actually has a track record that shows that he WILL vote for what he believes in.
    Or they all decided to point out the negatives of a guy who routinely wasn't getting significant votes to warrant a ton of air time yet had a dedicated minority following that would refuse to let him not be mentioned. Yes, I'm sure the big scary evil media met in their stone cutters back room to all decide to be mean to little old Ron Paul specifically becasue he votes for what he believes in.

    I'm sure the tooth fairy exists too.

    That type of integrity, yes... I understand that makes him over-qualified for president, but to say that he 'CANNOT' win... no, the closer he might get to winning the stronger the attacks will become.
    Ron Paul never got close enough to sniff the tail end of a person who had little chance to win. He never got "Closer" to winning, unless you mean he got "closer" to winning like forming a puddle in the mud is "closer" to becoming an ocean.

    The Zombified Corpse of Ronald Reagan has about as much chance at winning the Presidency as Ron Paul has, regardless as to whether or not the Media reports negatively on him.

    Actually, even though the tea parties have to a great extent been compromised by the 'neocons', you'll find that this broad base, ALSO includes a significant 'silent support' that has remained in tact.
    Oh please...I'm excited for this one...explain exactly how the "tea party" as a movement has been "to a great extent" compromised by 'Neocons'. Please explain specific policy views pushed by the Tea Party as a movement that are unquestionably "neoconservative".

    The fact that his warnings have all had merit, and he's managed to cause a situation where the patriot act failed to get super-majority... consider it's original vote of 98-1-1 abstention.
    ROLF

    Yes, of course...the Patriot Act being stripped away bit by bit over the past decade is DEFINITELY all attributed to Ron Paul and isn't simply something following the historical path of most other forms of heavily authoratarian legislation or edicts that was put into place during War Time and slowly removed.



    You want to know what hurt Ron Paul....other than his low name recognition to the main stream, his age, his lack of traditional charisma, his inability to explain the complex simply, his nasally voice, or his seeming rejection of pragmatism....the more ridiculous acting segment of his fans that range from 9/11 kooks to cult-like worshippers who think they're better than everyone and that everyone must be ****ing retarded to not view their god, "DR. PAUL!!!!", exactly as they do. Those who go on and on how its all just one giant horrible conspiracy against him because its not physically possible for someone to honestly think he's not a good candidate or has some problems or isn't the only bestest greatest most logical choice that's obvious to everyone whose not sheeple.

    Ron Paul's numerous faults regarding a national election were the largest thing to blame for his loss, and for the media's method of covering him, not some evil ridiculous conspiracy by the parties and the media to black ball him.

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    He might be older, but he's definitely still all there... so, yes, it's an issue, but not quite a deal breaker.
    May not be a deal breaker, but its a legitimate question and suggestion that it'd be a negative. He'd literally be "historic" if he was elected. I don't think its unreasonable that suggesting something that has NEVER happened before because of in part a negative view towards age on the part of the public is a negative for him. He'd be the oldest 1st term President by almost a decade in the history of our country.

    True, he's not a charismatic leader, he is however, a principled character with verifiable integrity.... it all depends on how well he has built up his message in that time. He's nothing of a 'write-off' candidate as people try to make him out to be... if he was given an honest chance against the rest (without things like the media smear campaign, etc), then he'd win hands down every time... Instead attempted creation of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    And if lollipops ****ted rainbows the world would be a wonderful place.

    Sadly, we live in reality. In reality, all factors of an individual play into how they're covered as do factors of business. A person whose election would mean bucking two extremely long running trends (no one over 70 elected, no congressman ever elected), who has moderate at best national exposure, who is generally not an exciting in the traditional political definition speaker, who is not good at playing the soundbite game, and who is prone to state things that without significant and time intensive further explanation sound crazy all are factors that he has to deal with. Just like every other candidate does.

    There is not a single candidate whose coverage is not dictated by the various other circumstances surrounding them, both positive or negative. You can wish that the impossible will happen all you want, but its no more logical or realistic than wishing for rainbow ****ting lollipops.

    That's why in the 'longer term', EVEN IF Dr Paul were to lose the election it would STILL be a win for his message, he can inject more pertinent issues into the debates, and he's already had a large impact on america as it is with his minimal 'results'.
    I agree it'd be a win for his message if he won the nomination; but then again simply being talked about on a national level will be win for his message.

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    Re: Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    As a Ron Paul voter, yes. And I don't think it was a "Conspiracy".
    No, to call it 'conspiracy' would be over-simplification... let's call it an overall consensus that the 'constitution' works contrary to their desires of power.

    I don't remember everyone just getting cookie cutter questions, and I don't think the question was uncalled for with Ron Paul. Already at that time he would've been one of the oldest people running on a major party ticket for their first term, which would be a strike against him. On the larger political scale he was a relative unknown. Senators tend to have a hard time being elected President, congressmen have never had it happen. Its a legitimate question to ask him.
    I disagree... it was an antagonistic question, and I exaggerated slightly at the split between both lines of questioning, but the others were all asked 'safe' questions where they all offered very similar answers but with different twists... but still, there was clear antagonistic pressure against Ron Paul far more then what the other candidates received. ALSO, when you consider the main campaign contributions to each of those in the primaries (Hint : The degree to which those banks that were later to receive 'bailouts' spent on a candidate reflected in how many votes they wound up with overall...

    But I don't view it as 'conspiracy' as much as I would consider it a 'common agenda'

    His problem with his statement on the troops was his OWN doing, and is a symptom of Ron Paul being unable to function in the current political climate on the national stage. His answers, his views, are nuanced things that take significant time to explain in detail to individuals who are not relatively well versed in politics. This simply is not condusive to how national politics are covered in this country, and that's been that way for far longer than simply 2008. Someone being unable to adapt their style to the arena they're entering is their own fault, not some conspiracy against them.
    Ya... he is over-qualified...

    Are you suggesting others in the primary weren't attacked? You had McCain being called out of touch, liberal, a rhino, etc as well. The News Anchors were using LOGIC with regards to the polls....notice that despite Ron Paul winning tons of ONLINE polls he routinely and continually came in towards the middle to end of the voting in each state. Obviously that must've been a giant conspiracy to keep the droves of poll voters away....or perhaps he had a more animated internet base with more computer savy on manipulating online polls. Its not a conspiracy, its common sense.
    No, I agree that even given a fair shot last time he lacked the core support in that sense. He did have a very vocal minority though... so, I don't think his support base should be under-estimated after continuing to build as he has in that time... and then his son getting into the political arena, who's very similar and still more charismatic...

    Or they all decided to point out the negatives of a guy who routinely wasn't getting significant votes to warrant a ton of air time yet had a dedicated minority following that would refuse to let him not be mentioned. Yes, I'm sure the big scary evil media met in their stone cutters back room to all decide to be mean to little old Ron Paul specifically becasue he votes for what he believes in.

    I'm sure the tooth fairy exists too.
    No, that wasn't the point... I don't think that he was allowed to truly convey his message at that point.

    Ron Paul never got close enough to sniff the tail end of a person who had little chance to win. He never got "Closer" to winning, unless you mean he got "closer" to winning like forming a puddle in the mud is "closer" to becoming an ocean.

    The Zombified Corpse of Ronald Reagan has about as much chance at winning the Presidency as Ron Paul has, regardless as to whether or not the Media reports negatively on him.
    It's a loop... he gets promotion of being 'unelectable', and so people buy into that and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Oh please...I'm excited for this one...explain exactly how the "tea party" as a movement has been "to a great extent" compromised by 'Neocons'. Please explain specific policy views pushed by the Tea Party as a movement that are unquestionably "neoconservative".
    No, not in the policy views.. but these 'neocons' have wrapped themselves in tea party coloration to use that movement to get them back into power, at which point they will flip flop around...

    ROLF

    Yes, of course...the Patriot Act being stripped away bit by bit over the past decade is DEFINITELY all attributed to Ron Paul and isn't simply something following the historical path of most other forms of heavily authoratarian legislation or edicts that was put into place during War Time and slowly removed.

    No, not solely to ron paul, but because of the message he puts out there...

    You want to know what hurt Ron Paul....other than his low name recognition to the main stream, his age, his lack of traditional charisma, his inability to explain the complex simply, his nasally voice, or his seeming rejection of pragmatism....the more ridiculous acting segment of his fans that range from 9/11 kooks to cult-like worshippers who think they're better than everyone and that everyone must be ****ing retarded to not view their god, "DR. PAUL!!!!", exactly as they do. Those who go on and on how its all just one giant horrible conspiracy against him because its not physically possible for someone to honestly think he's not a good candidate or has some problems or isn't the only bestest greatest most logical choice that's obvious to everyone whose not sheeple.

    Ron Paul's numerous faults regarding a national election were the largest thing to blame for his loss, and for the media's method of covering him, not some evil ridiculous conspiracy by the parties and the media to black ball him.
    No... not a 'conspiracy'... think of it like this :
    There's a mafia card game going on, every so often they might stab each other in the back, occasionally they might shoot each other... but if someone comes to interfere with the game they'll all flip the table and start shooting to protect the game.

    Dr Paul represents a threat to the neocon / neolib agenda of greater corporate and governmental power... and so, without needing to 'conspire' they all individually recognize the threat that this soft spoken, nasally, small-statured man represents.

    They don't need a 'conspiracy' to be individually corrupt and to recognize a threat to their continued corruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I agree it'd be a win for his message if he won the nomination; but then again simply being talked about on a national level will be win for his message.
    So, you're arguing that he should become a senator instead? Because, it'd be all but a sure thing if he went as a senator.

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