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US Man Shot Pakistan Pair "In Cold Blood"

This and similar articles are all I could find: US threatens to cut aid to Pakistan

Thank you for that. It does appear that the guy would be due diplomatic immunity had the alleged offence not been so serious. I seems to be members of Congress rather than the US administration calling for his release and threatening aid payments, but that could change. All very interesting.
ReverendHellhound - I think "murder" if that's what it is, is not covered under immunity. If he is cia, this story will quickly just disapate.
But he won't be released, will he?
 
Thank you for that. It does appear that the guy would be due diplomatic immunity had the alleged offence not been so serious. I seems to be members of Congress rather than the US administration calling for his release and threatening aid payments, but that could change. All very interesting.
But he won't be released, will he?



If he's cia? probably... but you will never hear about it.
 
The possibilities are numerous...

A military attaché
A CIA/DIA/DSS officer
A private contractor sent by Washington (beltway hire)
A mercenary working for US embassy staff (local hire)
 
The indie is talking veiled threats rather than actual withholding of aid.

" ..."His plea has been rejected by police investigators. He gave no chance to them to survive. That is why we consider it was not self-defence," said Mr Tareen. "We have proof it was not self-defence. It was cold-blooded murder."

The police chief's comments followed a 30-minute closed-door court hearing in which a judge ordered the 36-year-old American, who worked at the US consulate in Lahore, be detained in jail for another two weeks. Judge Anik Anwar also demanded the Pakistani government tell the court whether or not Mr Davis has diplomatic immunity.

In the aftermath of the incident on 27 January, in which Mr Davis shot dead two men who approached him on a motorbike using a semi-automatic Glock pistol, the US has insisted the former special forces soldier was employed as a "technical adviser" at the consulate and had immunity from prosecution under the Vienna Convention.

As Pakistan has continued to refuse to accommodate Washington's request, so the arm-twisting has increased with veiled warnings about the possible impact on American aid to Islamabad and the possible cancellation of a meeting planned for next month between President Asif Ali Zardari and Barack Obama. On Thursday, Pakistan's ambassador to the US, Husain Haqqani, was forced to deny a report that US national security adviser Tom Donilon had threatened to expel him from the country if Mr Davis was not released.
...Much remains unclear about the incident and the precise role held at the consulate by Mr Davis, who many believe is an intelligence operative. Public records reveal he and his wife own a Las Vegas-registered company called Hyperion Protective Services.

While he initially told police he feared for his life, investigators have said he shot the second Pakistani in the back as he tried to flee. Photographs that Mr Davis took of the two men he killed along with a video recording of him taken by police shortly after the incident have been leaked to the media...."


How Pakistan could be made to pay for an American killer - Asia, World - The Independent
 
The earliest reports were that the embassy was unsure of his status.

Those early reports raised issues that he might not, in fact, have diplomatic status. I'm not sure where things stand on that issue.

If he has diplomatic status, he should have a diplomatic passport. If so, Pakistan should expel him or ask the U.S. to waive his immunity. The latter request would all but certainly be denied, so he would be expelled. However, if no diplomatic passport exists, then Pakistan is within its rights to prosecute him.
 
Those early reports raised issues that he might not, in fact, have diplomatic status. I'm not sure where things stand on that issue.

If he has diplomatic status, he should have a diplomatic passport. If so, Pakistan should expel him or ask the U.S. to waive his immunity. The latter request would all but certainly be denied, so he would be expelled. However, if no diplomatic passport exists, then Pakistan is within its rights to prosecute him.

What of the Rev's statement that even if he does have dip.imm., that does not cover the crime of murder, that his immunity would not cover this?
 
What of the Rev's statement that even if he does have dip.imm., that does not cover the crime of murder, that his immunity would not cover this?

That's incorrect.

Under Article 31 of the Vienna Convention, a person with diplomatic immunity is exempt from all criminal jurisdiction of the "receiving state." The U.S. would have to waive diplomatic immunity if the person were to be prosecuted by the foreign country in which he/she worked in his/her diplomatic capacity.
 
That's incorrect.

Under Article 31 of the Vienna Convention, a person with diplomatic immunity is exempt from all criminal jurisdiction of the "receiving state." The U.S. would have to waive diplomatic immunity if the person were to be prosecuted by the foreign country in which he/she worked in his/her diplomatic capacity.

Oh, okay. That seems clear. So how would the US go about applying for Habeas Corpus in this case, given that he seems to be in Pakistani custody? And do you know whether they are doing that?
 
Rev's probably right, CIA or similar.
 
Either he's a spy and not a very good one, given that he blew his cover and got caught.

Or he's a man with a screw loose that just committed murder for reasons yet unknown.

Either way, he deserves to be charged according to Pakistani law and dealt with there.
 
Oh, okay. That seems clear. So how would the US go about applying for Habeas Corpus in this case, given that he seems to be in Pakistani custody? And do you know whether they are doing that?

I do not know what the U.S. is doing behind the scenes to try to resolve the issue. However, if Mr. Davis has diplomatic immunity (there is some uncertainty concerning his status), the U.S. could take the matter to the International Court of Justice, if Pakistan fails to adhere to its obligations under the Vienna Convention. Outside of that, the U.S. could seek to apply pressure e.g., reducing/eliminating aid, but there would also be adverse consequences to that move i.e., Pakistan could terminate the ability of the U.S. to use Pakistan's territory to provide supplies to its forces in Afghanistan, could suspend intelligence cooperation, etc. Some in the U.S. government appear to be making threats along the line of reduced or suspended aid, etc.

My guess is that should the U.S. guarantee that the shooting would be examined within the U.S. legal system with Pakistan's being permitted to supply evidence/argue its case/have full access to the proceedings, that could help resolve the dispute without a resort to the ICJ, much less policy pressure that could also damage U.S. interests. Nevertheless, if he has diplomatic immunity, Pakistan is obligated to refrain from prosecuting him, though it can expel him.

If, however, Mr. Davis actually lacks diplomatic immunity, Pakistan is within its rights to prosecute him there and in accordance with its own laws. Under such circumstances, it would also be within its rights to apply its own criminal penalties if he is convicted.
 
Either he's a spy and not a very good one, given that he blew his cover and got caught.

Or he's a man with a screw loose that just committed murder for reasons yet unknown.

Either way, he deserves to be charged according to Pakistani law and dealt with there.

Two points:

1. We don't know if he actually committed "murder." Pakistan's police allege that he used unncessary force that led to the deaths of the two individuals. Mr. Davis has made the alibi that he acted in self-defense believing he was about to be robbed. Right now all one has is the Pakistan police's allegation and Mr. Davis' alibi. Nothing has been proved and, as far as I know, no concrete evidence has been made available to the public.

2. If Mr. Davis has diplomatic immunity, he cannot legally be charged by Pakistan. Only if he lacks such status can he be charged and prosecuted by Pakistan. Otherwise, Pakistan would be in violation of its obligations under the Vienna Convention.
 
I do not know what the U.S. is doing behind the scenes to try to resolve the issue. However, if Mr. Davis has diplomatic immunity (there is some uncertainty concerning his status), the U.S. could take the matter to the International Court of Justice, if Pakistan fails to adhere to its obligations under the Vienna Convention. Outside of that, the U.S. could seek to apply pressure e.g., reducing/eliminating aid, but there would also be adverse consequences to that move i.e., Pakistan could terminate the ability of the U.S. to use Pakistan's territory to provide supplies to its forces in Afghanistan, could suspend intelligence cooperation, etc. Some in the U.S. government appear to be making threats along the line of reduced or suspended aid, etc.

My guess is that should the U.S. guarantee that the shooting would be examined within the U.S. legal system with Pakistan's being permitted to supply evidence/argue its case/have full access to the proceedings, that could help resolve the dispute without a resort to the ICJ, much less policy pressure that could also damage U.S. interests. Nevertheless, if he has diplomatic immunity, Pakistan is obligated to refrain from prosecuting him, though it can expel him.

If, however, Mr. Davis actually lacks diplomatic immunity, Pakistan is within its rights to prosecute him there and in accordance with its own laws. Under such circumstances, it would also be within its rights to apply its own criminal penalties if he is convicted.

Many thanks, Don. Very helpful post.
 
If he was a spy, I must say I am quite disappointed. I was expecting James Bond type people who didn't get caught.
US needs to kinda up their standards on who to accept as spies.
 
Who ever this hand is, we won't him back...bad.

The guy must be important if the Whitehouse is getting involved. Seriously. Also, the two armed guys on a motorbike scenario is a common robbery, and... as I mentioned in another thread... assassination scenario. It wasn't long ago that some Pakistani muckity-muck was blown up in his car as two guys on a motorbike slapped a bomb on his windshield. If this fellow is one of our more important spies, he could very well have been targeted for assassination, and recognizing the attack, he got them before they got him.

The fact that another embassy employee dashed immediately to his call for help and tried to get him back into embassy territory kind of supports that possibility.

All I know is that if he's important enough for the Whitehouse et.al. to be willing to risk an international incident with a crucial ally in the region, then he's important enough that I want him back too!
 
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