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Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Case?

Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

VanceMack said:
One of the reasons the SCOTUS is vetted to the levels they are and given a lifetime appointment is that it is expected that they be above bias. I know...its OBVIOUSLY not the case, with all 9 justices. Thats pretty sad. These should be the best and most unbiased legal minds in the country. When you reach the point you have been selected to the supreme court there should be no recusal.
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That's an interesting point. However that's an ideal that can't work in reality. Justices will come across cases where the conflict of interest will cast suspicion over their decisions. For example a family member is representing the case say. It's better that judges recuse themselves than leave questions as to their decisions - this should be especially true of the supreme court. But in this case, the Justices' likely decisions are known even before they decide. All 9 of them are bias anyway.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Given the types of cases the Supreme Court decides and the scopes of the cases, it could be argued that there is a slight evidence of bias in nearly any case they decide. They do argue a lot of cases that affect an aspect of any given American's life after all.

The idea is that the amount of rigor built into the nomination process is designed to short circuit or at least alleviate the bias process enough so they can make decisions as objectively as possible.

My opinion is that neither should recuse on this case or that both should. There may be bias what the political sides are going for, but the court itself should not exhibit that bias so I lean towards neither recusing.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Redress said:
Well that just makes you dishonest and willing to use any tactic to win.

Or you could just be worried about possible conflicts of interest...nah, that could never be it.

Seriously, I honestly think sometimes that conservatives believe that anything is worth doing to get what they want passed or defeated, that they just assume the whole rest of the world is as dishonest and lacking in honor as themselves.
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Irony, you has it.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

The article said this

Under federal law, justices have to recuse themselves from cases where they feel a conflict of interest may arise, or if their spouses have a financial stake in the case, but the decision ultimately rests with each justice.
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So this is very much about the rule of law. Spouses of judges, particularly Supreme Court judges, have to be both aware and sensitive to this and must keep vigilant to make sure that they do not cast any shadow of doubt on the rulings of their spouse. Mrs. Thomas appears to have already crossed the line on this issue. She only has herself to blame. If her husband ends up having to disqualify himself, it will be her fault. If that loss ends up deciding the case in favor of the health care law, that will be her fault as well.

However, Clarence Thomas, is as political as they come. There is no way that he will willingly step down as long as he believes he is one of five needed votes to deliver right wing conservatives a victory on this issue. In the end, he will allow the tarnish of his wife's activities to mar any eventual decision and will not allow it to get in the way of his political and ideological goals. he is well aware that a decision throwing out the health care law will be a line in the history books while his wife's beliefs and activities will be barely a footnote.

The right wing is only concerned about the ends - the means hardly bother them even if they violate the law.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

haymarket said:
The article said this



So this is very much about the rule of law. Spouses of judges, particularly Supreme Court judges, have to be both aware and sensitive to this and must keep vigilant to make sure that they do not cast any shadow of doubt on the rulings of their spouse. Mrs. Thomas appears to have already crossed the line on this issue. She only has herself to blame. If her husband ends up having to disqualify himself, it will be her fault. If that loss ends up deciding the case in favor of the health care law, that will be her fault as well.

However, Clarence Thomas, is as political as they come. There is no way that he will willingly step down as long as he believes he is one of five needed votes to deliver right wing conservatives a victory on this issue. In the end, he will allow the tarnish of his wife's activities to mar any eventual decision and will not allow it to get in the way of his political and ideological goals. he is well aware that a decision throwing out the health care law will be a line in the history books while his wife's beliefs and activities will be barely a footnote.

The right wing is only concerned about the ends - the means hardly bother them even if they violate the law.
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Does anyone really believe that his decision will be "tarnished" by his wife lobbying activities?

Most of us know that he will vote the conservative way, though in this case, I'm not sure that that means he will find the health insurance unconstitutional, but assuming he would, we know that's his ideaological stance. If his wife lobby for the other side, do you believe that he would vote differently from his ideaological stance?
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Haymarket,


I think you confuse "they feel"'with "you feel".
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

VanceMack said:
One of the reasons the SCOTUS is vetted to the levels they are and given a lifetime appointment is that it is expected that they be above bias. I know...its OBVIOUSLY not the case, with all 9 justices. Thats pretty sad. These should be the best and most unbiased legal minds in the country. When you reach the point you have been selected to the supreme court there should be no recusal.
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I know what you mean, but then again the Justices are human. It is why I think if either Justice Kagan or Thomas were to recuse themselves the other should as well. They both, in my mind, are in this very gray conflict of interests and if they both were to do it than the court would go to 3-3 with the decision still going to Justice Kennedy. Again I don't think they should, but if one does the other should.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

PeteEU said:
This thread clearly shows that some Conservatives do not understand what "conflict of interest" is.
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I think Ginni Thomas should be home, barefoot and pregnant.
She should also stay completely away from any tea party rallys because her husband can't be trusted to rule without bias.:sarcasticclap
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

The article said this


Under federal law, justices have to recuse themselves from cases where they feel a conflict of interest may arise, or if their spouses have a financial stake in the case, but the decision ultimately rests with each justice.
Click to expand...

Will Ginni Thomas profit financially?
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Should Kennedy or anyone for that matter recuse themselves from a case on illegal immigration because thier partners have their nails and hair done by a shop that hires illegal aliens? Crude example, but you see where I'm going. In law a conflict of interest recusal motion places the burden of demonstrating a material need to remove the attending judge on the one bringing the motion.

case cloised..


Tim-
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Here is the way I see it:

1) Both Thomas and Kagan have a clear conflict of interest here.

2) Both Thomas and Kagan should recuse themselves.

3) Whether they do or not doesn't matter, as far a ruling on the Affordable Health Care Act. One is a Liberal and the other is a Conservative. They cancel each other's vote, so the outcome will not be affected at all, whether they recuse themselves or not.

4) Nonetheless, there is still a clear conflict of interest. They should both recuse themselves for the good of the nation and the judicial system. If they don't, then it will help to lend an appearance that the Supreme court is owned by Lobbyists who are fighting it out for their own interests, rather than doing their jobs for the American people.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

danarhea said:
Here is the way I see it:

1) Both Thomas and Kagan have a clear conflict of interest here.

2) Both Thomas and Kagan should recuse themselves.

3) Whether they do or not doesn't matter, as far a ruling on the Affordable Health Care Act. One is a Liberal and the other is a Conservative. They cancel each other's vote, so the outcome will not be affected at all, whether they recuse themselves or not.

4) Nonetheless, there is still a clear conflict of interest. They should both recuse themselves for the good of the nation and the judicial system. If they don't, then it will help to lend an appearance that the Supreme court is owned by Lobbyists who are fighting it out for their own interests, rather than doing their jobs for the American people.
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What's the clear conflict of interest for Thomas?
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Redress said:
Well that just makes you dishonest and willing to use any tactic to win.

Or you could just be worried about possible conflicts of interest...nah, that could never be it.

Seriously, I honestly think sometimes that conservatives believe that anything is worth doing to get what they want passed or defeated, that they just assume the whole rest of the world is as dishonest and lacking in honor as themselves.
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Several Justices go to church too. Should they recuse themselves when it comes to issues concerning abortion?

That Thomas should step down is the lamest of lame attempts to cut his opinion. He'll use the Constitution, and dare I say he won't invoke foreign law either.

All about nothing. As if he'll decide for the good of his wife instead of looking at the Constitution.

Nice (pathetic) try.

.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

DiAnna said:
Whoa there, back up a step. First, I'm NOT a conservative. I think that the spouse of a Supreme Court Justice should actually NOT be a paid lobbyist for issues which might come up before SCOTUS because, yes, it is a conflict of interest. I honestly do not understand how you could label me as dishonest or lacking in honor. I don't believe Thomas should have ever been confirmed to SCOTUS in the first place... you see, I believed Anita.

Why have you attacked and insulted me? Seriously, I want to know because I don't understand.
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I think you misunderstood(or I expressed poorly) what I was saying. I agreed with your comments.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

soccerboy22 said:
I know what you mean, but then again the Justices are human. It is why I think if either Justice Kagan or Thomas were to recuse themselves the other should as well. They both, in my mind, are in this very gray conflict of interests and if they both were to do it than the court would go to 3-3 with the decision still going to Justice Kennedy. Again I don't think they should, but if one does the other should.
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Im not saying you are wrong... but how sad is it that we are talking along these lines. I dont care what their personal bias is, the SOLE driving factor should be does it pass constitutional muster.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

If Thomas should recuse himself, then so should Kagan if they ever decide on gay marriage.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Redress said:
Or they feel he has a conflict of interest. Not surprising since they are democrats you would see the sinister, even when it may not(probably isn't) there.
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Just read a little on Ginni Thomas' Liberty consulting. Am puzzled how this translates to a conflict of interest regarding a ruling a on Health Care??

How would Thomas benefit financially.....??



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Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Erod said:
If Thomas should recuse himself, then so should Kagan if they ever decide on gay marriage.
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Kagan has been recusing herself frequently and there is no indication she has rules on any case where she had previously worked.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Erod said:
If Thomas should recuse himself, then so should Kagan if they ever decide on gay marriage.
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(Sort of thought someone may go there. But Kagan has never "come out". So you need to prepare to be throttled mercilessly....)


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Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Cole said:
Just read a little on Ginni Thomas' Liberty consulting. Am puzzled how this translates to a conflict of interest regarding a ruling a on Health Care??

How would Thomas benefit financially.....??
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The argument is that his wife would benefit, which would benefit him. I am not convinced of the argument, and I actually believe he will act appropriately on the matter. My comments is that asking some one you see with a potential conflict of interest to recuse themselves is not trying to stack the deck. It is quite possibly a legitimate fear on the parts of those who asked him to recuse himself. We are quick to automatically assume that politicians have nefarious motives, when usually a much more benign explanation fits better.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Cole said:
(Sort of thought someone may go there. But Kagan has never "come out". So you need to prepare to be throttled mercilessly....)
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Oh ****, I completely misunderstood his argument. She would have to recuse herself if she was involved in either case working their way towards SCOTUS(the Mass and Cali cases). She would not have to recuse herself for being gay(if she is), just as the rest of the judges would not have to recuse themselves for being strait. The argument that gays should not rule on SSM cases is stupid.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

VanceMack said:
Im not saying you are wrong... but how sad is it that we are talking along these lines. I dont care what their personal bias is, the SOLE driving factor should be does it pass constitutional muster.
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Truth. Which is why I am of the opinion if one decides to go the other should as well. Can you imagine the bitching we would hear if the Court's ruling was either in favor or against the bill if Kagan recuses herself and Thomas doesn't or vice versa.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

I have never seen any explanation of who Thomas has lobbied for in the past regarding health care reform. This article certainly doesn't mention any connection.

It does say that Ginsburg has frequently been criticized for not recusing herself when cases came before the court that could impact her husband's business.
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

disneydude said:
Thomas wouldn't know a conflict of interest if it stared him in the face...he'll just wait to see what Scalia will do and then will cast his vote accordingly.
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Do you have a source to support this assertion, or are you making **** up again?
 
Re: Should Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas, Elena Kagan Sit Out Health Care Ca

Redress said:
The argument is that his wife would benefit, which would benefit him. I am not convinced of the argument, and I actually believe he will act appropriately on the matter. My comments is that asking some one you see with a potential conflict of interest to recuse themselves is not trying to stack the deck. It is quite possibly a legitimate fear on the parts of those who asked him to recuse himself. We are quick to automatically assume that politicians have nefarious motives, when usually a much more benign explanation fits better.
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Should have been more explicit. (thought about it when i was typing)

Am asking how Mrs Thomas would benefit financially by her husband ruling one way or the other? Didn't see anything in her lobbying activities that related directly to the Health Care Bill.


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