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Thread: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Based on how both the GOP and the Dems have towed the line with the PATRIOT Act for the past 10 years or so, I would say that the blame is pretty bipartisan. If the tea party element is the only thing stopping the perpetual continuation of this law, then I say good on them.

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by Illumination View Post
    Instead they are more interested in using unconstitutional procedures against citizens rather than taking the necessary steps to protect the country.
    Why worry about catching and arresting people who are not even here yet? Much easier to just arrest the ones that are already here, right?

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by Illumination View Post
    The Patriot Act is just an excuse to use unconstitutional methods to catch all types of criminals; not just terrorists.

    Why are the borders not secured? It's elementary. You close off the borders if you think you are being invaded, yet that STILL has not happened.

    Instead they are more interested in using unconstitutional procedures against citizens rather than taking the necessary steps to protect the country. We are at war overseas, spending trillions in foreign aid, and sacrificing many of our lives only to prop up foreign trade and global businesses; and we were doing all that before 9/11 as well. Terrorism is a side effect of these acts in addition to other factors. The patriot act will not keep us safe from terrorism. Another one will happen again. It's inevitable. And then what more rights shall we give up for "safety"? It's a never ending saga of using the words "national security" to control the people. If they really cared about security from foreign terrorists they would have secured the border and that would have costs even less; and it would not have required defecating all over our constitution.

    Those that voted "aye" to renew these provisions should be charged with crimes or at least voted out of office.
    The borders arent secure for political expediency. The Obama admin is COUNTING on capitalizing on the Hispanic vote. If they secure the southern border they lose their edge. They know it. National security is at risk in the name of political expediency.

    I went to the link above (Wow...just wow)...and from there went to the CATO institute. I saw several declarations of abuses of the Patriot Act...I STILL have yet to see the instances where private citizens have been targeted. I understand the concern...I truly do. And I can understand why people dont like the Patriot Act. However...if people still...in this day and age are not convinced that there are non-citizens here in this country illegally and with bad intent, then those people are either deluded or deliberatley ignorant. There HAS to be an effective tool in combating terrorism. And for those that think the Patriot Act is not the way, Id love to hear your answers.

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The borders arent secure for political expediency. The Obama admin is COUNTING on capitalizing on the Hispanic vote. If they secure the southern border they lose their edge. They know it. National security is at risk in the name of political expediency.

    I went to the link above (Wow...just wow)...and from there went to the CATO institute. I saw several declarations of abuses of the Patriot Act...I STILL have yet to see the instances where private citizens have been targeted. I understand the concern...I truly do. And I can understand why people dont like the Patriot Act. However...if people still...in this day and age are not convinced that there are non-citizens here in this country illegally and with bad intent, then those people are either deluded or deliberatley ignorant. There HAS to be an effective tool in combating terrorism. And for those that think the Patriot Act is not the way, Id love to hear your answers.
    What do you consider terrorism? The Patriot Act's definition: “to influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion.” A bit broad, don't ya think?

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    -Ben Franklin
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    What do you consider terrorism? The Patriot Act's definition: “to influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion.” A bit broad, don't ya think?

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    -Ben Franklin
    Sure...broad...now other than the general "they conducted warrantless wiretaps" can you provide instances were US citizens rights have been violated byt the commission of the Patriot Act?

    Im sorry...but I think that to avoid another 9-11 or a group of terrorists blowing up a hospital or mall Im ok with the feds monitoring cell phone traffic to Yemen. And bitching about the Patriot Act doesnt qualify as a better answer or alternative.

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sure...broad...now other than the general "they conducted warrantless wiretaps" can you provide instances were US citizens rights have been violated byt the commission of the Patriot Act?

    Im sorry...but I think that to avoid another 9-11 or a group of terrorists blowing up a hospital or mall Im ok with the feds monitoring cell phone traffic to Yemen. And bitching about the Patriot Act doesnt qualify as a better answer or alternative.
    Patterns of Misconduct: FBI Intelligence Violations from 2001 - 2008 | Electronic Frontier Foundation

    And the answer comes in closing U.S. borders and changing our foreign policy. Depriving U.S. citizens basic freedoms is not the answer.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Patterns of Misconduct: FBI Intelligence Violations from 2001 - 2008 | Electronic Frontier Foundation

    And the answer comes in closing U.S. borders and changing our foreign policy. Depriving U.S. citizens basic freedoms is not the answer.
    I already read that (I think i mention i went to every article linked from the OP) and while they cite a large number of warrantless wiretaps they STILL dont point to any US citizens who have had their rights abused. No one is suggesting US citizens rights should be abused. However the terrorists that committed the 9-11 attacks didnt sneak in over a border, they came here on student visas. Its not a simple cookie cutter answer like 'closing the border' (as if that concept alone is 'simple'). Im not advocating for depriving US citizens rights. But you still arent addressing how you would combat terrorism in America.

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I already read that (I think i mention i went to every article linked from the OP) and while they cite a large number of warrantless wiretaps they STILL dont point to any US citizens who have had their rights abused. No one is suggesting US citizens rights should be abused. However the terrorists that committed the 9-11 attacks didnt sneak in over a border, they came here on student visas. Its not a simple cookie cutter answer like 'closing the border' (as if that concept alone is 'simple'). Im not advocating for depriving US citizens rights. But you still arent addressing how you would combat terrorism in America.
    Sure, but who or what are you referring to when you say terrorism in America? Islamic extremists?
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Sure, but who or what are you referring to when you say terrorism in America? Islamic extremists?
    Any terrorists...however we already use the RICO stautes and others (which no one seems to bitch about) when we go after organized crime, gangs, or people the ilk of Tim McVeigh. The Patriot Act as I understand it was specifically designed to target foreigners on American soil who plot, plan, fund, etc terror activities hiding under the protection of the constitution.

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    Re: House GOP fumbles on Patriot Act renewal

    the patriot act yesterday passed the house, 275 to 144

    Try again: Patriot Act extension passes House - On Congress - POLITICO.com

    27 republicans dissented, 65 democrats voted with boehner's broad majority

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