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Thread: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

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    Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    The Turkish prime minister called Sunday for the Turkish Cypriot administration to take action against protesters he accused of insulting Turkey and its government, intensifying the spat with northern Cyprus while drawing criticism from the opposition.
    The opposition and even members of the party lambasted the AKP PM for his hypocrisy, who had earlier called on the Egyptian President to respect the right of his people to protest.

    Turkish PM demands action against Turkish Cypriot protesters - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review
    Last edited by kaya'08; 02-06-11 at 11:58 AM.
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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    Turkey should withdraw its forces from Cyprus anyway. It's invasion was illegal in the first place and it is the primary obstacle to the reunification of the island country.
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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Turkey should withdraw its forces from Cyprus anyway. It's invasion was illegal in the first place and it is the primary obstacle to the reunification of the island country.
    Turkey invaded Cyprus because its minority where being slaughtered by Greek terrorists who wanted to unify Cyprus with Greece at the expense of its minorities including the British. As a gaurentor power, Turkey acted within its legal obligations to protect its Cypriot minority since the British refused to act. It was that, or allow the genocide to continue. What option, as a hypothetical Turkish PM, would you have chosen?

    Turkey invaded Northern Cyprus to allow a de facto state to form after an Athens backed coup in Cyprus ousted all Turkish Cypriot political representatives in parliament and thus creating a Greek island ruled by those who had funded and supported the terrorist groups. Turkey stepped in to ensure the rights of its Turkish Cypriots could be secured in a way that was sustainable after years of political oppression that forced Turkish Cypriots into enclaves and exile.

    The Turkish Cypriot government is now a transparent and Democratic force in the region that has now allowed Turkish Cypriots to live in peace in their own land, as equals.

    The Annan Plan was supported by the US, Turkey and the UN to reunify the island and remove the Turkish Armed Forces from the island.

    Turkish Cypriots voted yes at a percentage of over 60%.

    Greek Cypriots said no to reunification at a percentage of 70+%

    Now you know these facts, you can reevaluate your stance accordingly.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 02-09-11 at 10:50 AM.
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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Turkey invaded Cyprus because its minority where being slaughtered by Greek terrorists who wanted to unify Cyprus with Greece at the expense of its minorities including the British. As a gaurentor power, Turkey acted within its legal obligations to protect its Cypriot minority since the British refused to act. It was that, or allow the genocide to continue. What option, as a hypothetical Turkish PM, would you have chosen?

    Turkey invaded Northern Cyprus to allow a de facto state to form after an Athens backed coup in Cyprus ousted all Turkish Cypriot political representatives in parliament and thus creating a Greek island ruled by those who had funded and supported the terrorist groups. Turkey stepped in to ensure the rights of its Turkish Cypriots could be secured in a way that was sustainable after years of political oppression that forced Turkish Cypriots into enclaves and exile.

    The Turkish Cypriot government is now a transparent and Democratic force in the region that has now allowed Turkish Cypriots to live in peace in their own land, as equals.

    The Annan Plan was supported by the US, Turkey and the UN to reunify the island and remove the Turkish Armed Forces from the island.

    Turkish Cypriots voted yes at a percentage of over 60%.

    Greek Cypriots said no to reunification at a percentage of 70+%

    Now you know these facts, you can reevaluate your stance accordingly.
    You didn't tell me anything I didn't know. I have never supported the notion of enosis. However, Cyprus is a nation-state that is recognized in the international community as a single nation. Turkey had no basis whatsoever in legality to invade and carve a separate state out of the nation of Cyprus. The fact that not one other single nation has recognized the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is pretty telling... So, no, while I am not going to absolve the Greek Cypriots of their sins in this case, it doesn't excuse the even more egregious sins of the Turkish state...
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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You didn't tell me anything I didn't know. I have never supported the notion of enosis. However, Cyprus is a nation-state that is recognized in the international community as a single nation. Turkey had no basis whatsoever in legality to invade and carve a separate state out of the nation of Cyprus.
    International law becomes irrelevant when that very law inhibits a nations ability to protect there minorities abroad. International law in this respect is a very broad consensus that allows little exceptions in exceptional and specific circumstances such as this.

    I admit, it wouldn't be the same if Turkey just got up and invaded Germany, but Cyprus is a neighboring island which has a significant and historical Turkish Cypriot presence whom where endangered by regimes that where violating the very international law the world expected Turkey to respect and idly watch as events unfolded. Such a notion that Turkey had "no right" is to suggest Turkish Cypriots rightfully deserved the onslaught bought to them by Greece and Greek Cypriots and that not interfering would have somehow resolved the situation.

    The fact that not one other single nation has recognized the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is pretty telling... So, no, while I am not going to absolve the Greek Cypriots of their sins in this case, it doesn't excuse the even more egregious sins of the Turkish state...
    Greece refused to heed the warnings of Turkey and the cries of Cypriot minorities. With the fact that these two nations [Greece and Greek Cyprus] had no intention of giving Turkish Cypriots there right to live in peace on the island (simply because the ideology they where hell bent on following through did not allow for such a thing), the carving of a de facto state was the best alternative for ensuring there freedom and the sustainability of this freedom on the island. Legally it is a train crash, just to get up a make a nation like that, yes i admit. Unprovoked and unjustified? Absolutely not.

    And now Greek Cypriots voted No in the Annan plan in their majority and beyond, its time we stop pretending North Cyprus no longer exists, its time to stop rewarding those who committed genocide against a native peoples and who refused unification and its time we stop pretending Turkish Cypriots are second class citizens.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 02-09-11 at 01:12 PM.
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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    International law becomes irrelevant when that very law inhibits a nations ability to protect there minorities abroad. International law in this respect is a very broad consensus that allows little exceptions in exceptional and specific circumstances such as this.
    No, it does not. This is confirmed by the fact that this invasion was condemned around the world. There is nothing in international law that gives a state to protect the interests of ethnic minorities IN OTHER STATES! Cyprus is NOT part of Turkey. Would you defend Greece's right to protect Greek minorities in Turkey a century ago? Of course not and nor did Ataturk. Now, the Turkish state is acting the hypocrite.

    I admit, it wouldn't be the same if Turkey just got up and invaded Germany, but Cyprus is a neighboring island which has a significant and historical Turkish Cypriot presence whom where endangered by regimes that where violating the very international law the world expected Turkey to respect and idly watch as events unfolded. Such a notion that Turkey had "no right" is to suggest Turkish Cypriots rightfully deserved the onslaught bought to them by Greece and Greek Cypriots and that not interfering would have somehow resolved the situation.
    You are now talking like the Chinese... as if a modern state has the right to interfere in any area that was once a part of its territory because some of its people live there. Once again, I deplore the move toward enosis. However, that is the democratic right of Cyprus to determine its own future without outside interference. Turkey's action was illegal, a fact that is UNIVERSALLY acknowledged...



    Greece refused to heed the warnings of Turkey and the cries of Cypriot minorities. With the fact that these two nations [Greece and Greek Cyprus] had no intention of giving Turkish Cypriots there right to live in peace on the island (simply because the ideology they where hell bent on following through did not allow for such a thing), the carving of a de facto state was the best alternative for ensuring there freedom and the sustainability of this freedom on the island. Legally it is a train crash, just to get up a make a nation like that, yes i admit. Unprovoked and unjustified? Absolutely not.
    Greece didn't invade Cyprus. Turkey did.

    And now Greek Cypriots voted No in the Annan plan in their majority and beyond, its time we stop pretending North Cyprus no longer exists, its time to stop rewarding those who committed genocide against a native peoples and who refused unification and its time we stop pretending Turkish Cypriots are second class citizens.
    And I condemned it at the time. However, Cyprus is a state that is recognized in the international community. Northern Cyprus is not. Cyprus is recognized by treaty and law as an integral state and Turkey invaded that sovereignty. There is ABSOLUTELY no justification in law for that interference.
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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    No, it does not. This is confirmed by the fact that this invasion was condemned around the world. There is nothing in international law that gives a state to protect the interests of ethnic minorities IN OTHER STATES! Cyprus is NOT part of Turkey. Would you defend Greece's right to protect Greek minorities in Turkey a century ago? Of course not and nor did Ataturk. Now, the Turkish state is acting the hypocrite.
    Never did we line them up and kill them. Greece isnt a gaurentor power over Turkey and neither is Turkey over Greece. As i have previously stated, international law should not be regarded as valid if it prevents that country from securing the rights of its minorities. The case of Cyprus is an exceptional one - we had a legal status to intervene if our respective minority faced a threat to their continued existence on the island. We've seen it happen tonnes of times in Africa when the British or French have used military means to stop a conflict. Turkey went an extra step to secure and sustain the Turkish Cypriot right to peace on the island by supporting the establishment of a de facto state. What military conflict do you see on the island now?



    You are now talking like the Chinese... as if a modern state has the right to interfere in any area that was once a part of its territory because some of its people live there. Once again, I deplore the move toward enosis. However, that is the democratic right of Cyprus to determine its own future without outside interference. Turkey's action was illegal, a fact that is UNIVERSALLY acknowledged...
    When you say condemned internationally, you mean to say by the West and the allies of Greece, because the prejudices go back to the Ottoman days. Your idea of Cyprus "resolving its own issues" is an interesting one, though. Because the issue for those who grabbed power in the 74 coup where the Turks, and the resolution lay in their demise. Is this the solution you talk of?

    Greece didn't invade Cyprus. Turkey did.
    I dont think you quiet understood what i said.

    "Legally it is a train crash, just to get up a make a nation like that, yes i admit. Unprovoked and unjustified? Absolutely not."

    And I condemned it at the time. However, Cyprus is a state that is recognized in the international community. Northern Cyprus is not. Cyprus is recognized by treaty and law as an integral state and Turkey invaded that sovereignty. There is ABSOLUTELY no justification in law for that interference.
    This argument is frequently used to deny the existence of Northern Cyprus by the international community while disregarding the rights of the Turkish Cypriot people, all the while "seeking a solution". The solution [the annan plan] was bought to the table, and the "victims" threw it back at our faces. So then what? Do we continue disregarding the rights of those who have lived, died, worked and sustained generations of lives in Northern Cyprus as any citizen in any other country does?
    Last edited by kaya'08; 02-09-11 at 09:36 PM.
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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    Turkey would get its butt whooped by Greece. Now just imagine them taking on Cyprus a nation that could easily defeat the Greeks.......

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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    Turkey would get its butt whooped by Greece. Now just imagine them taking on Cyprus a nation that could easily defeat the Greeks.......
    Not on par with topic but with all due respect, our army is far more technologically and financially advanced then they are, not to mention the size of our army which makes it the largest in the region and second largest in NATO under the United States. But OK.
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    Re: Turkish PM enrages Turkish Cypriots

    For perspective, here's what the Library of Congress's Country Study on Cyprus states:

    A coup d'état in Athens in November 1973 had made Brigadier General Dimitrios Ioannides leader of the junta. Rigidly anticommunist, Ioannides had served on Cyprus in the 1960s with the National Guard. His experiences convinced him that Makarios should be removed from office because of domestic leftist support and his visits to communist capitals. During the spring of 1974, Cypriot intelligence found evidence that EOKA B was planning a coup and was being supplied, controlled, and funded by the military government in Athens. EOKA B was banned, but its operations continued underground. Early in July, Makarios wrote to the president of Greece demanding that the remaining 650 Greek officers assigned to the National Guard be withdrawn. He also accused the junta of plotting against his life and against the government of Cyprus. Makarios sent his letter (which was released to the public) to the Greek president on July 2, 1974; the reply came thirteen days later, not in the form of a letter but in an order from Athens to the Cypriot National Guard to overthrow its commander in chief and take control of the island.

    Makarios narrowly escaped death in the attack by the Greek-led National Guard. He fled the presidential palace and went to Paphos. A British helicopter took him the Sovereign Base Area at Akrotiri, from where he went to London. Several days later, Makarios addressed a meeting of the UN Security Council, where he was accepted as the legal president of the Republic of Cyprus.

    In the meantime, the notorious EOKA terrorist Nicos Sampson was declared provisional president of the new government. It was obvious to Ankara that Athens was behind the coup, and major elements of the Turkish armed forces went on alert. Turkey had made similar moves in 1964 and 1967, but had not invaded. At the same time, Turkish prime minister Bülent Ecevit flew to London to elicit British aid in a joint effort in Cyprus, as called for in the 1959 Treaty of Guarantee, but the British were either unwilling or unprepared and declined to take action as a guarantor power. The United States took no action to bolster the Makarios government, but Joseph J. Sisco, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, went to London and the eastern Mediterranean to stave off the impending Turkish invasion and the war between Greece and Turkey that might follow. The Turks demanded removal of Nicos Sampson and the Greek officers from the National Guard and a binding guarantee of Cypriot independence. Sampson, of course, was expendable to the Athens regime, but Sisco could get an agreement only to reassign the 650 Greek officers.

    As Sisco negotiated in Athens, Turkish invasion ships were already at sea. A last-minute reversal might have been possible had the Greeks made concessions, but they did not. The intervention began early on July 20, 1974. Three days later the Greek junta collapsed in Athens, Sampson resigned in Nicosia, and the threat of war between NATO allies was over, but the Turkish army was on Cyprus.
    Note: For those who wonder about 4 paragraphs being quoted, the Country Studies are public domain. There are no copyright issues involved.

    While there are some international law issues involved, nations act based on their interests. Occasionally such interests and international law clash. If the interests are sufficiently critical, nations will favor their interests in such a situation. When Turkey saw that neither Britain (the guarantor power) nor the U.S. would take concrete measures to address the situation, Turkey was confronted with the issue of whether or not to intervene. The lack of concrete action in that case, is an all-too-common problem when it comes to "international security guarantees" i.e., there had been opportunities to avoid the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, there were warnings about possible genocide in Rwanda weeks before the catastrophe occurred, etc., and in such cases there was no concrete international action. Hence, the balance of power contributes more to stability than international guarantees that have rung hollow all too frequently when tested. In any case, Turkey delivered on its threats to intervene militarily. IMO, such a stance was not unreasonable for Turkey. On the contrary, it would be very difficult for any Turkish leader to rationalize leaving Cyprus' Turkish ethnic minority to an uncertain or worse fate. That Turkey's military intervention was "illegal" under international law was a lesser consideration for Turkey's government.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 02-10-11 at 10:19 AM.

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