China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

I am sure the anti-Americans who support outsourcing probably think that this is just a wonderful idea.


China Eyes U.S. Defense Contracts - WSJ.com
BEIJING—The maker of China's new stealth fighter jet has teamed up with a tiny, unprofitable California company to try to launch bids for U.S. defense contracts, possibly including one to supply Chinese helicopters to replace the aging Marine One fleet used by the president, according to people involved in the partnership.

Any Chinese bids for this or another contract under discussion would be certain to meet intense political resistance and would appear to have very little chance of success given mounting U.S. concern about China's military power and long-term strategic goals, and the often-prohibitive opposition in the past to Chinese attempts to enter other strategic U.S. sectors, such as energy and telecommunications.

However, the fact that state-run China Aviation Industry Corp., known as AVIC, is even considering bids for these contracts, which industry insiders expect to be awarded in the next two to three years, reflects the rapid development and lofty ambitions of China's aerospace industry.

AVIC has been in talks for more than a year with California-based U.S. Aerospace Inc. about offering the AC-313—China's largest domestically produced helicopter—as the next generation of Marine One, the people involved in the partnership say.

Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?

Deuce said:

Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?

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Or that somehow American 5 year olds want to make clothing for American Apparel for half a cent an hour for 18 hours a day...

Deuce said:

Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?

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I support a free fair market. I do not support outsourcing and I am not for a totally unrestricted free market. It is ****en absurd to say that US companies can adequately compete with companies in countries that have forced labor camps, pay their workers a few dollars a day or less, use child labor and or do not have any of the same labor and environmental safety rules as regulations as we do. Its also absurd to say you are patriotic and support the troops when you support out sourcing.

Its hypocritical for all these republicans who bash communism to support sending jobs to one of the biggest communist countries in the planetand for democrats to say they support the American worker and agree with these WTO,NAFTA,KAFTA and any other acronyms that cause American jobs to leave the US. It would be like GLAAD letting Fred Phelps work at one of their hotlines.

Deuce said:

Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?

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Well, like everything, responsibility must be a theme in our quest to launch social crusades. The free market and outsourcing is great until your enemies are seeking to play with you. Maybe Iran or Russia can supply us missile tracking systems next? Maybe we can allow China to build the computers that run our security networks in Washington while we are at it. And if there's any problems with the non-free world hacking into it eventually, maybe we can call up India to get some computer support.

My point is that despite the Leftist theme that we are one cozy hand holding world, we are still divided into two. That line is a bit grey since one side stopped adhering to the Soviet flag, but it is still there. And China is not on our side of the line. There's adhering to our free market outsourcing theme and there's just sheer foolishness. Leftists and greedy capitalists generally err on the side of foolishness. Responsibility is always for someone else to consider.

Our idea of free market is very much about private enterprise. No private enterprise in China is without government instruction and policy. Therefore, IBM's deal with the government of China is hardly in keeping with the theme. In regards to defense and security, outsourcing should not exist.

Deuce said:

Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?

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Actually Free trade and open markets are a wonerful idea for everything except any item having to do with out defense industry.

Other than our strongest allies England, Canada, Japan, and Israel and maybe one of two others.

Another thing is It's about jobs here at home where we need them most.

It's bad enough that the lowest bid gets the contracts but to be counting on what could be an unreliable source is nuts, and Chins uses slave and nearly slave labor, and we should not encourage it with huge contracts that helps a potential enemy.

jamesrage said:

I am sure the anti-Americans who support outsourcing probably think that this is just a wonderful idea.

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It's not like we're buying anything critical to our national security from them. Producing the helicopters the President uses would not be any serious loss economically or strategically.

jamesrage said:

I support a free fair market. I do not support outsourcing and I am not for a totally unrestricted free market. It is ****en absurd to say that US companies can adequately compete with companies in countries that have forced labor camps, pay their workers a few dollars a day or less, use child labor and or do not have any of the same labor and environmental safety rules as regulations as we do. Its also absurd to say you are patriotic and support the troops when you support out sourcing.

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Child labor is explicitly banned in China and the U.S. also has prison labor so those points are irrelevant. The real reason China is able to produce more is because living standards are lower there and thus they do not need as much money as American workers. It is plain and simple poverty that allows them to outproduce us because when people have less money they are willing to take less money.

MSgt said:

Well, like everything, responsibility must be a theme in our quest to launch social crusades. The free market and outsourcing is great until your enemies are seeking to play with you. Maybe Iran or Russia can supply us missile tracking systems next? Maybe we can allow China to build the computers that run our security networks in Washington while we are at it. And if there's any problems with the non-free world hacking into it eventually, maybe we can call up India to get some computer support.

My point is that despite the Leftist theme that we are one cozy hand holding world, we are still divided into two. That line is a bit grey since one side stopped adhering to the Soviet flag, but it is still there. And China is not on our side of the line. There's adhering to our free market outsourcing theme and there's just sheer foolishness. Leftists and greedy capitalists generally err on the side of foolishness. Responsibility is always for someone else to consider.

Our idea of free market is very much about private enterprise. No private enterprise in China is without government instruction and policy. Therefore, IBM's deal with the government of China is hardly in keeping with the theme. In regards to defense and security, outsourcing should not exist.

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"Slippery slope" arguments are usually fallacious.
It might be easier for you if you stopped seeing China as an enemy.

Simply buying Chinese military hardware as a complete unit is bad idea, as we could get screwed if China decides to cut off the supply of spare parts. However, there are options that let us lower some costs while still maintaining strategic requirements. The simplest would be licensing Chinese designs and then building them domestically. Avoiding our miserable excuse for a procurement system if we need a simple no-frills design could bring in significant cost savings

If the president's helicopters are built in China the Chinese will install listening devices and homing beacons. I am not kidding.

If the president's helicopters are built in China the Chinese will install listening devices and homing beacons. I am not kidding.

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Your paranoia is really getting to you. China would build the airframe, but all electronics and other goodies would be installed domestically. It would be trivial to find any listening device, and the Chinese aren't stupid enough to try. I don't think letting the Chinese manufacture the presidents helicopters are a good idea, but that is more to inconsistent quality control than some kind of stupid conspiracy.

rathi said:

Your paranoia is really getting to you. China would build the airframe, but all electronics and other goodies would be installed domestically. It would be trivial to find any listening device, and the Chinese aren't stupid enough to try. I don't think letting the Chinese manufacture the presidents helicopters are a good idea, but that is more to inconsistent quality control than some kind of stupid conspiracy.

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There is no conspiracy. And I have no problems with the Han. I prefer them to most Americans. But allowing a peer military competitor to manufacture and/or assemble equipment for the US CIC is foolhardy because of the temptation it presents.

Deuce said:

"Slippery slope" arguments are usually fallacious.
It might be easier for you if you stopped seeing China as an enemy.

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On the contrary, I don't see China as an enemy. I also don't believe in the slippery slope excuse for stagnation. You may peruse my 16,000+ posts for validation on both remarks. However, I do see China for what it is, which is on the other side of the line. Maybe Air Force One can be Russian made? Russia is hardly an enemy these days either, but let's not be stupid. Handing out our national security to be in the hands of foriegners on the other side of the line for the sake of an idea is foolish.

This is beyond stupid. We shouldn't even be buying raw materials for defense contracts from foreign sources.

Some days I sit back and I sincerely wonder wtf happened to this great country, because things like this were at one time "no brainers". I mourn for the future.

Deuce said:

Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?

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I support the free market as much as anyone, however any project that is sentive to national security and/or the military should be US based companies only.

I support free market, China's been subsidizing their companies through state-owned companies and can smother the competitions. That's why competition between countries needs to be more restricted than domestic competition where companies are on even footing. So make importation more expensive, while make production within the US will be a win-win for the US's economy.

Demon of Light said:

It's not like we're buying anything critical to our national security from them. Producing the helicopters the President uses would not be any serious loss economically or strategically.

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In the sense of "it's only one item, singular product procurement" concept, I agree. It's not like this arrangement would turn into a contract to construct a fleet of helos either for commercial use or for use in our military. But, let's keep this in perspective...

Before AVIC or it's potential California partner can begin construction on the next generation of Marine One helos, they must first win the bid for the contract with the Defense Department. The only way that happens is if our government becomes so deparate that it uses this venture as a means to help reduce the federal debt even that much. Somehow, I doubt Boeing or Lockheade would accept being out-bid by a foreign entity. It hasn't happened in the near 70 years since WWII and I doubt it happens now.

There is a tremendous amount of ignorance in this thread about defense contracting.

American said:

There is a tremendous amount of ignorance in this thread about defense contracting.

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Why don't you explain to the readers exactly how the procedure works?