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Thread: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

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    China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    I am sure the anti-Americans who support outsourcing probably think that this is just a wonderful idea.


    China Eyes U.S. Defense Contracts - WSJ.com
    BEIJING—The maker of China's new stealth fighter jet has teamed up with a tiny, unprofitable California company to try to launch bids for U.S. defense contracts, possibly including one to supply Chinese helicopters to replace the aging Marine One fleet used by the president, according to people involved in the partnership.

    Any Chinese bids for this or another contract under discussion would be certain to meet intense political resistance and would appear to have very little chance of success given mounting U.S. concern about China's military power and long-term strategic goals, and the often-prohibitive opposition in the past to Chinese attempts to enter other strategic U.S. sectors, such as energy and telecommunications.

    However, the fact that state-run China Aviation Industry Corp., known as AVIC, is even considering bids for these contracts, which industry insiders expect to be awarded in the next two to three years, reflects the rapid development and lofty ambitions of China's aerospace industry.

    AVIC has been in talks for more than a year with California-based U.S. Aerospace Inc. about offering the AC-313—China's largest domestically produced helicopter—as the next generation of Marine One, the people involved in the partnership say.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?
    Or that somehow American 5 year olds want to make clothing for American Apparel for half a cent an hour for 18 hours a day...

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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?
    I support a free fair market. I do not support outsourcing and I am not for a totally unrestricted free market. It is ****en absurd to say that US companies can adequately compete with companies in countries that have forced labor camps, pay their workers a few dollars a day or less, use child labor and or do not have any of the same labor and environmental safety rules as regulations as we do. Its also absurd to say you are patriotic and support the troops when you support out sourcing.

    Its hypocritical for all these republicans who bash communism to support sending jobs to one of the biggest communist countries in the planetand for democrats to say they support the American worker and agree with these WTO,NAFTA,KAFTA and any other acronyms that cause American jobs to leave the US. It would be like GLAAD letting Fred Phelps work at one of their hotlines.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 02-05-11 at 11:05 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?
    Well, like everything, responsibility must be a theme in our quest to launch social crusades. The free market and outsourcing is great until your enemies are seeking to play with you. Maybe Iran or Russia can supply us missile tracking systems next? Maybe we can allow China to build the computers that run our security networks in Washington while we are at it. And if there's any problems with the non-free world hacking into it eventually, maybe we can call up India to get some computer support.

    My point is that despite the Leftist theme that we are one cozy hand holding world, we are still divided into two. That line is a bit grey since one side stopped adhering to the Soviet flag, but it is still there. And China is not on our side of the line. There's adhering to our free market outsourcing theme and there's just sheer foolishness. Leftists and greedy capitalists generally err on the side of foolishness. Responsibility is always for someone else to consider.

    Our idea of free market is very much about private enterprise. No private enterprise in China is without government instruction and policy. Therefore, IBM's deal with the government of China is hardly in keeping with the theme. In regards to defense and security, outsourcing should not exist.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-05-11 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Outsourcing is an expression of the free market. I thought you supported that sort of thing?
    Actually Free trade and open markets are a wonerful idea for everything except any item having to do with out defense industry.

    Other than our strongest allies England, Canada, Japan, and Israel and maybe one of two others.

    Another thing is It's about jobs here at home where we need them most.

    It's bad enough that the lowest bid gets the contracts but to be counting on what could be an unreliable source is nuts, and Chins uses slave and nearly slave labor, and we should not encourage it with huge contracts that helps a potential enemy.

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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I am sure the anti-Americans who support outsourcing probably think that this is just a wonderful idea.
    It's not like we're buying anything critical to our national security from them. Producing the helicopters the President uses would not be any serious loss economically or strategically.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I support a free fair market. I do not support outsourcing and I am not for a totally unrestricted free market. It is ****en absurd to say that US companies can adequately compete with companies in countries that have forced labor camps, pay their workers a few dollars a day or less, use child labor and or do not have any of the same labor and environmental safety rules as regulations as we do. Its also absurd to say you are patriotic and support the troops when you support out sourcing.
    Child labor is explicitly banned in China and the U.S. also has prison labor so those points are irrelevant. The real reason China is able to produce more is because living standards are lower there and thus they do not need as much money as American workers. It is plain and simple poverty that allows them to outproduce us because when people have less money they are willing to take less money.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, like everything, responsibility must be a theme in our quest to launch social crusades. The free market and outsourcing is great until your enemies are seeking to play with you. Maybe Iran or Russia can supply us missile tracking systems next? Maybe we can allow China to build the computers that run our security networks in Washington while we are at it. And if there's any problems with the non-free world hacking into it eventually, maybe we can call up India to get some computer support.

    My point is that despite the Leftist theme that we are one cozy hand holding world, we are still divided into two. That line is a bit grey since one side stopped adhering to the Soviet flag, but it is still there. And China is not on our side of the line. There's adhering to our free market outsourcing theme and there's just sheer foolishness. Leftists and greedy capitalists generally err on the side of foolishness. Responsibility is always for someone else to consider.

    Our idea of free market is very much about private enterprise. No private enterprise in China is without government instruction and policy. Therefore, IBM's deal with the government of China is hardly in keeping with the theme. In regards to defense and security, outsourcing should not exist.
    "Slippery slope" arguments are usually fallacious.
    It might be easier for you if you stopped seeing China as an enemy.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    Simply buying Chinese military hardware as a complete unit is bad idea, as we could get screwed if China decides to cut off the supply of spare parts. However, there are options that let us lower some costs while still maintaining strategic requirements. The simplest would be licensing Chinese designs and then building them domestically. Avoiding our miserable excuse for a procurement system if we need a simple no-frills design could bring in significant cost savings

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    Re: China Maneuvers for U.S. Defense Contracts

    If the president's helicopters are built in China the Chinese will install listening devices and homing beacons. I am not kidding.

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