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Thread: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

  1. #61
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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    [QUOTE=Red_Dave;1059267907]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post

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    and poor old Geobells has no balls at all!

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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Cameron is basically correct. To neuter EDL/BNP type groups, the British Muslim's are going to have to put forth a genuine effort to confront, combat, and expunge Islamic extremism within their community.
    No, it's not all down to the Muslim community. This state of affairs is not solely the fault of extremist forces within Islam and the failure of other Muslims to rein them in. There is a systemic failure in many, or most, Western nations to accommodate immigrant communities. In Britain's case, it was happy to have them coming here from the former colonies and indeed encouraged them wholesale. Once in the country, the indigenous community's failure to curb the racist and fascistic element amongst them alienated a whole new second generation of non-white, non-Christians. Those are the wages we are reaping now.

    Yes, effort has to come from the Muslim community itself, but for Cameron to laud 'assimilation' when his party has been opposing immigration and demonising migrant comunities for decades is a bit rich. Assimilation is a two-way process, an immigrant becoming accustomed to her/his new home by effort and intention...and the host country accepting, welcoming and offering the same protection to arriving migrants as they would do to anyone else. You can't have one without the other and I'm not seeing many ideas coming from Cameron for addressing the Other.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonof Light
    Once more you blow things out of proportion. I read a few pages and there are two major problems:

    1. That article was about the personal moral beliefs of Muslims in Britain, not political beliefs like in this article.
    FALSE.
    The OP talks about Racist attitudes and Illiberality. I quoted those very sections, which of course didn't get requoted by you as this would show your assertion ridiculous.

    ie, Cameron in This article/The OP: "So when a white person holds objectionable views – racism, for example – we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them."

    ie 2, We need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism."

    Now that they're out of quote boxes, you'll have to use your usual practice of dropping them (significant parts of opponents replies) Intentionally. Now more difficult.

    . None of the people you mention defended these beliefs. They simply countered yours and Gardener's generalization of all Muslims.
    They indeed apologized for them in that string and for the 20 MONTHS I've been here.
    ie, post #2 , Mindblowingly blaming Muslim intolerance of Homosexuals on "unemployment"!

    The string continuing with Me Echoing Cameron (or rather he, me) in a discussion with PeteEU on what we tolerate/allow/bash from Christian Literalists ("a white person"), but allow as 'multiculturalism' from Muslim Literalists.
    Precisely what I said/have said for all my time here- Cameron did in the first quote above. Precisely.
    The great Irony of the OP: Cameron being cheered by my PC Daily opponents for saying what I have- or at least all he can say as PM.

    Which is why you didn't/couldn't answer my Second post in this string at the top of page 4. It also contains numbers and facts.
    But you did get several thx for your wrong but partisan 3 liner vs my substantial posts.
    Last edited by mbig; 02-06-11 at 12:00 PM. Reason: continuing with ME
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    EDL is not fascist. Oh no no no.

    I prefer to think of them as in denial chav-scum racists under the mask.

    Those of us in UK know they are no better than NF/BNP
    Are you interested in working in Las Vegas?

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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I don't know enough about the Tea Party to call it fascist. It might be, but I don't have a view on it. The EDL IS definitely a neo-fascist organisation set up by English supremacists and specifically with a remit to attack Muslims. You don't need to spend very long on their website to see what they are about...
    English Defence League News - EDL Latest News

    I can't work out why you would draw a parallel between the EDL and the Tea Party though.
    The Tea Party is falsely accused of racism and violence by the American left. Thus, conservatives believe it likely that all leftists use false accusations. It's a presumption against the left.

    Edit: The EDL has reached out to American conservatives through the Gates of Vienna. Personally, I'm not after Muslims. I'm after American leftists. Figuratively speaking, cut off the head of the snake and the tail don't rattle.

    Second Edit: If there is going to be figurative jihad waged in American, it will be waged by an aroused conservative population.
    Last edited by Albert Di Salvo; 02-06-11 at 11:50 AM.

  6. #66
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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    There is a systemic failure in many, or most, Western nations to accommodate immigrant communities.
    You should have stuck to the word assimilate rather than accomodate here, because it is the excessive accomidation by the pandering British left that has encouraged the radicalization.

    Multiculturalism is just stupid since it involves such blatant double standards. Until you adopt the attitude of having the same expectatins for ALL people no matter their skin color or nominal ethnicity instead of exempting some because of their race or ethnicity, the situation will not change. Between the British cultural self-loathing that elevates other cultures to protected status and the inherent (reverse in this case) racism manifested through the hypocritical double standards based upon ethnicity, I would say it is the British PEOPLE who are as much, or more to blame than any government agency.
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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    You should have stuck to the word assimilate rather than accomodate here, because it is the excessive accomidation by the pandering British left that has encouraged the radicalization.

    Multiculturalism is just stupid since it involves such blatant double standards. Until you adopt the attitude of having the same expectatins for ALL people no matter their skin color or nominal ethnicity instead of exempting some because of their race or ethnicity, the situation will not change. Between the British cultural self-loathing that elevates other cultures to protected status and the inherent (reverse in this case) racism manifested through the hypocritical double standards based upon ethnicity, I would say it is the British PEOPLE who are as much, or more to blame than any government agency.
    I'd be interested in knowing what level of experience gives you such insight into the deeper levels of the British collective psyche. You speak as if you've spent half your life in the country and yet clearly you haven't because you don't get the situation at all.

    Having travelled around and workled in the States, I wouldn't presume to analyse and prescribe about US society the way you seem to feel qualified to do about Britain.

    The big lie of the Cameron position is that on the one hand immigrants are told they are not welcome, should p**s off back to where they came, on the other they are told they should assimilate. All the expectation of assimilation seems to weigh on the shoulders of the migrants, with the wider British society as a whole having no responsibility to make those coming to live in Britain feel as if they belong.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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  8. #68
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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Then they are not muslim.

    By the words of the Quran there is no obligation to believe.



    By this we can see, that if it had been Allahs plan to make everyone on Earth believe, he would have done so, but in not doing so, he gave man free will, making faith a moral achievement, and non faith a sin, as all of the major religions do. As a complementary proposition, men must not be impatient or angry if they have to content against unfaith, and most important of all, they must gaurd against the temptation of forcing faith. Forced faith is no faith.

    Nor to do the unbeliever harm as long as they are not trying to do harm to you.



    Anyone who wants to make Britain entirely Muslim, has subverted the faith.
    Which takes us back to "hey...did you know prime minister Cameron spoke out against not taking a strong enough stand against EXTREMISTS? And funny...he didnt condemn all Muslims...

  9. #69
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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    C'mon Jet, those verses don't count.
    Apparently they dont count to the extremist Muslims in England and throughout the world...you know...the ones ADDRESSED in the OP...

    Always a crack-up when people get defensive about what Muslims are or are not. There are a whole lot of evil bastards out there that would define themselves and your version of Islam a wee bit differently...
    Last edited by VanceMack; 02-07-11 at 01:07 AM.

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    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Is the Illiberal Practice of Sharia "inherent to Islam"?
    I could swear it is.

    .[/b]
    I would be interested to hear why these stats are not reflected electorally, for example in the case of Pakistan, but if we are to take them at face value then they still back up my point in that they are not uniform, there are significant differences between countries so this problem as much cultural and to do with education and economic development it is religious. Turkey is a case in point here. Honour killings etc. nearly all happen in the east of the country whereas the more developed patches are, at least in my experience, just as socially liberal as any other European city. You see the same things in underdeveloped christian parts of the world. More then 90% of Georgians have no tolerance for homosexuality, homosexuals are persecuted by the state in Uganda. The Prime Minister of Southern Sudan made it clear that homosexuals would not be tolerated after independance.This is not to say that Christiality is on par with Islam here, as a whole Islam certainly comes off worse. Just that their are other factors at work here besides religeon.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 02-16-11 at 06:53 PM.

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