Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 71

Thread: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

  1. #21
    Libertarian socialist

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    6,730

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    [QUOTE=VanceMack;1059266571Imagine a thread where the actions of extremist muslims were pointed out, and instead of some rambling blathering excuse on the defense of, the response was simply..."you are right...what scumbags. I agree...ALL should do more to stand against such animals." End thread. No need to apologize for them, no need to excuse or justify. A simple acknowledgement of the obvious...similar to what was done here in the OP.[/QUOTE]

    Which would be pretty pointless, this is "Debate Politics" not 'state the obvious and go away' what is up for disscussion is not whether these actions are moral but why they occur. To explain or understand these actions is not to excuse them.

  2. #22
    free market communist
    Gardener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    09-30-17 @ 12:27 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,661

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Which would be pretty pointless, this is "Debate Politics" not 'state the obvious and go away' what is up for disscussion is not whether these actions are moral but why they occur. To explain or understand these actions is not to excuse them.
    Changing the subject to the behavior of Christians 200 or 1200 years ago is not understanding. It is merely an excuse. Diminishing the extent to which certain beliefs are held is not understanding. It is merely dishonest. Advancing the same rationales as Islamists to justify their actions is not understanding. It is merely useful idiocy.

    THose who claim to "understand" might be better served by attempting to actually understand instead of simply deciding ahead of time that they must defend and then spending the entirety of their postings doing so no matter what.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  3. #23
    Sage
    Laila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Seen
    04-28-17 @ 01:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    mbig could be gorgeous muslim girl, and laila a redneck from middle america for all we know.
    Caught me out have you?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont disagree that what you said sometimes occurs. There is a reason I very seldom go to ME-tarded threads anymore. However MY impression is that there are people here that pretend fundamentalist Islam simply isnt that big of a deal...its only a small fraction...and besides...blah blah blah. (you took much more of your Saturday typing out the daily tripe than I plan to...)

    Imagine...

    Imagine a thread where the actions of extremist muslims were pointed out, and instead of some rambling blathering excuse on the defense of, the response was simply..."you are right...what scumbags. I agree...ALL should do more to stand against such animals." End thread. No need to apologize for them, no need to excuse or justify. A simple acknowledgement of the obvious...similar to what was done here in the OP.
    No one ever says they are not scumbags.
    But there is always those few posters who post some of those gems I have highlighted or claim it is somehow something all Muslims support which starts the arguments in many of the Islam-related threads.
    Not whether Islamists are good or bad


  4. #24
    free market communist
    Gardener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    09-30-17 @ 12:27 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,661

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Caught me out have you?



    No one ever says they are not scumbags.
    But there is always those few posters who post some of those gems I have highlighted or claim it is somehow something all Muslims support which starts the arguments in many of the Islam-related threads.
    Not whether Islamists are good or bad
    Actually, what happens more often is that posters discuss Islamists and are then attacked as if they HAD indicated all Muslims.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  5. #25
    Sage
    Laila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Seen
    04-28-17 @ 01:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Actually, what happens more often is that posters discuss Islamists and are then attacked as if they HAD indicated all Muslims.
    I disagree, many I in particular reply to are those who judge all Muslims or Islam by those actions and are usually the first ones drooling at the idea of more material to attack Islam with


  6. #26
    Libertarian socialist

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    6,730

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Changing the subject to the behavior of Christians 200 or 1200 years ago is not understanding. It is merely an excuse. Diminishing the extent to which certain beliefs are held is not understanding. It is merely dishonest. Advancing the same rationales as Islamists to justify their actions is not understanding. It is merely useful idiocy.

    THose who claim to "understand" might be better served by attempting to actually understand instead of simply deciding ahead of time that they must defend and then spending the entirety of their postings doing so no matter what.
    As regards the first point, often this is not a case of changing the subject. Given that the disscussion normally focuses around whether these actions are an inherent part of Islam it is neccesary to look at other examples. Thus violence and authoritarianism are no more an inherent part of Islam then they are of Christiality, both have been varied in different situations. And we dont need to go back 200 years, we need only go back to the break-up of Yugoslavia, The Spanish Civil War and facist Croatia. And this is an important point as the myth that this extremism is inherent to the entire muslim world is part of a wider agenda of dehumanising those on the recieving end of Western foreign policy. It can be used to justify some our long standing policy of support for authoritarianism in the region, are wreakless disregard for civillan causualties in Iraq and Afganistan and our torture of innocent people in Guantanomo. The fact that someone is willing to blow themselves up about these grevences does not mean that these grevences are illegitimate, only that the action is illegitimate.

    Ultimatly I dont except that these traits are inherent to Islam as I dont see the evidence. The lack of support for Islam electorally and the comparatively benine history that Islam has in tolerating other religeons (again it is necessary to make the comparison to Christiality here) convince me other wise, but im open to changing my mind on this. Thats why im here, however what normally happens is that you debate me rather then the topic.

    We have a differing interpretation of why these actions occur, so the rational responce to this would be to actually come to the truth about which is correct via a rational and honest discussion. That is to say one in which both sides looks at the reasons why the other has come to this conclusion and asks themselves whether the reasons and the conclusions for them are valid. This is never the case because not only do you insist on making up my opinions for me but coming up with completely false reasons for holding opinions that I dont, in reality, hold in the first place.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 02-05-11 at 01:36 PM.

  7. #27
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    many in particular reply to are those who judge all Muslims or Islam by those actions and are usually the first ones drooling at the idea of more material to attack Islam with
    wherever you'd see that going on, i'd (for whatever nothingness my opinion could possibly be worth) condemn it

    as much for it's fundamental unfairness and wrongness as for it's political stupidity

    it's just not winning politics in america

    probably because it IS untrue

    stay up

  8. #28
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I'm more interested to find out why exactly so many people are attracted to such a twisted ideology in the first place. Crazy ideas and ideologies abound everywhere in the world, but extremist/fundamentalist/radical Islam derives its power from a certain degree of popular support. Nobody seems to know why people are attracted to it in the first place.

  9. #29
    Libertarian socialist

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    6,730

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm more interested to find out why exactly so many people are attracted to such a twisted ideology in the first place. Crazy ideas and ideologies abound everywhere in the world, but extremist/fundamentalist/radical Islam derives its power from a certain degree of popular support. Nobody seems to know why people are attracted to it in the first place.
    Read what Carl Jung has to say about Nazism and there are some pretty strong parralells

  10. #30
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Read what Carl Jung has to say about Nazism and there are some pretty strong parralells
    Thanks, I'll take that under advisement.

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •