Immigration probe of Chipotle widens

You know, being the critic of Barack Obama that I am, I was quite surprised to find this out:

Under President Barack Obama, immigration enforcement strategy has shifted to finding evidence to criminally charge or fine employers. ICE previously conducted large-scale raids that netted large numbers of employees, many from Mexico and Central America.

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Looks like we agree on something, Mr. President. After all, we wouldn't have illegal aliens in this country is we didn't have crooked employers who are willing to hire them. Good job. On THIS, I support you.

Article is here.

If we enforced the Laws on the boks and included the serious penalties for emploters we would have a great deal less problems than we have and cut the costs we incur in states from the illegals

When they Mexicans know they can't work they leave. The threats in AZ caused thousands to flee and move to places like California where Snctuary Cities like L.A., San Diego, and San Francisco where they are now sucking up billions of tax dollars.

This is about the only Nation in the world that has a policy that allows elected officials to flaunt the law with no penalties.

If we started to jail people in these Cities who fail to obey the laws things would change and our economic situation would improve.

I'm not saying the problems would go away but they would get better almost over night.

We need a federal law that forces people who take the oath of office to live up to it or hit the road or go to jail.

I took the oath f office a few years ago and it never expires as far as I know. Few in local State or federal office live up to what they swear to, and it's ridiculous that there is no penalty for it.

If it were up to me, the fine would be Per Illegal Immigrant. That would solve the problem, nice and quick.

Those who hire illegals should be subject to the same assets seizure and forfeiture laws that drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities upon conviction. That also means throwing their ass in prison.

danarhea said:

You know, being the critic of Barack Obama that I am, I was quite surprised to find this out:



Looks like we agree on something, Mr. President. After all, we wouldn't have illegal aliens in this country is we didn't have crooked employers who are willing to hire them. Good job. On THIS, I support you.

Article is here.

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I read about this sometime back, and was very, very pleasantly surprised! Good job on this, Obama. (Now build the danged fence! :mrgreen

Punishing the employers is the only effective penalty-based strategy to combat unlawful immigration. It just makes sense to punish the people who are circumventing government regulation and engaged in what is basically racketeering, instead of focusing on punishing the immigrants themselves who just want to come here to make a better life for themselves and their families.

Of course, we can only truly beat the immigration problem when we relax lawful immigration requirements, and allow a pathway to citizenship for those undocumented workers already here. But as a means of reducing the incentive for new undocumented immigrants, and punishing the employers who deserve it, this is a great plan.

What do you liberals guess the market for counterfeit documents is worth?? What do you think is the civil risk to an employer who questions the status of a person just because the person can’t or won’t speak English?

It would cost our economy less to slap a stiff prison term on the illegals than it will to have the employers spend the money necessary to check the documents of all of these people.

Better yet; let’s pay Mexico to hold the illegals in a Mexican prison for three years. Do that and three froths of the illegals would leave before we could catch them.

As far as a path to citizenship; sending them back to Mexico where they are citizens is a path I would put them on.

I agree that we need a reasonable guest worker program that would stipulate that the guest worker could never become a citizen and that their kids would not become citizens either.

Iron River said:

What do you liberals guess the market for counterfeit documents is worth?? What do you think is the civil risk to an employer who questions the status of a person just because the person can’t or won’t speak English?

It would cost our economy less to slap a stiff prison term on the illegals than it will to have the employers spend the money necessary to check the documents of all of these people.

Better yet; let’s pay Mexico to hold the illegals in a Mexican prison for three years. Do that and three froths of the illegals would leave before we could catch them.

As far as a path to citizenship; sending them back to Mexico where they are citizens is a path I would put them on.

I agree that we need a reasonable guest worker program that would stipulate that the guest worker could never become a citizen and that their kids would not become citizens either.

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What do you liberals guess the market for counterfeit documents is worth?? What do you think is the civil risk to an employer who questions the status of a person just because the person can’t or won’t speak English?

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The is NO civil risk. It's called a form I-9.

And to call people who believe in employer sanctions Liberals is dishonest. I guess that makes Jamesrage, ChevyDriver, and a number of other Conservatives and Libertarians Liberals in your book. Fact is, if the only argument you have is to call those who disagree with you Liberals, you don't have a dog in the hunt, and should sit on the sidelines and let others debate the issue.

Guy Incognito said:

Punishing the employers is the only effective penalty-based strategy to combat unlawful immigration. It just makes sense to punish the people who are circumventing government regulation and engaged in what is basically racketeering, instead of focusing on punishing the immigrants themselves who just want to come here to make a better life for themselves and their families.

Of course, we can only truly beat the immigration problem when we relax lawful immigration requirements, and allow a pathway to citizenship for those undocumented workers already here. But as a means of reducing the incentive for new undocumented immigrants, and punishing the employers who deserve it, this is a great plan.

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It's not the only way, because there are so many illegals out there with phony ID's.

apdst said:

It's not the only way, because there are so many illegals out there with phony ID's.

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And there are so many employers who do not have job applicants fill out I-9 forms, as required by law.

danarhea said:

And there are so many employers who do not have job applicants fill out I-9 forms, as required by law.

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You're right, which is why going after the employers should be part of a multi-pronged strategy to combat illegal immigration.

Don't worry, it won't be long before going after employers who employ Meixcans will be considered racist, too.

danarhea said:

You know, being the critic of Barack Obama that I am, I was quite surprised to find this out:



Looks like we agree on something, Mr. President. After all, we wouldn't have illegal aliens in this country is we didn't have crooked employers who are willing to hire them. Good job. On THIS, I support you.

Article is here.

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So now the over burdened US Employers and Business owners have a new role to add............Border Agents.


Yeah fining employers works all right.......except on the Illegal Drug Dealers, Illegal Gang Members, Murderers, and Rapists.......they will remain untouched by this measure.

You want to fine employers....so be it. Then fine the landlords, the grocer, the utility companies, the mortgage companies, ect. as well.

.....in a country so quick to point the finger at business.....while they turn a blind eye to all the sanctuary city policies, the limp wristed border enforcement, and lack of punishment for THE ACTUAL CRIMINALS.

God Help Us.......before we chase every business out of this country.......
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Guy Incognito said:

Punishing the employers is the only effective penalty-based strategy to combat unlawful immigration.

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I disagree because it takes two to tango and a lot of these illegals are doing more than just working here illegally.

Of course, we can only truly beat the immigration problem when we relax lawful immigration requirements,

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I think our standards are pretty good.
NationMaster - American Immigration statistics

and allow a pathway to citizenship for those undocumented workers already here.

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Not only no but hell no. If someone is here illegally then they deserve no amnesty or any form of amnesty. They should go back to their country of origin and get back to the end of the line. Now if we have to catch them then they should be permanently barred from entering the US.

But as a means of reducing the incentive for new undocumented immigrants,

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If you grant amnesty then you send the message for more people to come here illegally. The Reagan amnesty already proved this and it proved that you can not trust the government to do a compromise.

and punishing the employers who deserve it, this is a great plan.

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It takes two to tango. Those who come here illegally are just as guilty as those who hire illegals and or house or aid illegals. They should get a minimum of 6 months in jail assuming that illegal immigration is their first and only crime like the law says they can before being deported. Deportation without any jail time is just a free bus ride home and nothing more.

For those of you leftists who want to relax immigration standards so that you can import the impoverished of the world I have two words: civil war. If you are prepared for civil war then bring it on.

Badmutha said:

So now the over burdened US Employers and Business owners have a new role to add............Border Agents.

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Hog wash. Legal status is just one of the many checks an employer does.An employer for example checks to see if you are old enough to work, have at least a high school diploma,does not have any discrepancies in your back ground that might make you a risk to their company and so on. Saying you are not allowed to hire illegals and you will be punished for hiring illegals does not in any shape or form add border guard to the employer's role.

Yeah fining employers works all right.......except on the Illegal Drug Dealers, Illegal Gang Members, Murderers, and Rapists.......they will remain untouched by this measure.

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Do gang members, murderers and rapist hire illegals? No? So what does that have to do with cracking down on scum who hire illegals? Nothing. Not a damn thing to do with this topic.

You want to fine employers....so be it.

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They should get more than just fines.

Then fine the landlords, the grocer, the utility companies, the mortgage companies, ect. as well.

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The landlords and mortgage companies as well as finical institutions such as banks and money wiring services should be fined for aiding illegals.Because they do back ground checks to make sure you are who you say are when you want to borrow money, open an account or cash a check and to check your credit score. As for grocers thats just stupid. You don't need a credit check to buy food, you do not need to even need to present an id when buying food.

.....in a country so quick to point the finger at business.....while they turn a blind eye to all the sanctuary city policies, the limp wristed border enforcement, and lack of punishment for THE ACTUAL CRIMINALS.

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You will find that most people who are actually again illegal immigration have suggested cracking down on the sanctuary cities, the lack of border enforcement and so on Dishonest businesses who hire illegals are just one of the many and main reasons people come here illegally.

God Help Us.......before we chase every business out of this country.......

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Most businesses are not dishonest,so therefore the only ones who would be affected are the dishonest ones who hire illegals.

jamesrage said:

Hog wash. Legal status is just one of the many checks an employer does.An employer for example checks to see if you are old enough to work, have at least a high school diploma,does not have any discrepancies in your back ground that might make you a risk to their company and so on. Saying you are not allowed to hire illegals and you will be punished for hiring illegals does not in any shape or form add border guard to the employer's role.

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Doing the job the Government and the Border guards just wont do--The US Employer......

Do gang members, murderers and rapist hire illegals? No? So what does that have to do with cracking down on scum who hire illegals? Nothing. Not a damn thing to do with this topic.

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Does fining employers disuade the Illegal Drug Dealers, Illegal Gang Members, Illegal Murderers, Illegal Rapists that have invaded this country?

They should get more than just fines.

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Hell yeah......the ma and pop store that mistakenly hires an illegal should be shut down! That will teach those Illegals!

The landlords and mortgage companies as well as finical institutions such as banks and money wiring services should be fined for aiding illegals.Because they do back ground checks to make sure you are who you say are when you want to borrow money, open an account or cash a check and to check your credit score. As for grocers thats just stupid. You don't need a credit check to buy food, you do not need to even need to present an id when buying food.

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Well considering all the arguments that have "Well illegals wouldnt come here if they didnt have (insert anything)"........

............why should it end with employment?

You will find that most people who are actually again illegal immigration have suggested cracking down on the sanctuary cities, the lack of border enforcement and so on Dishonest businesses who hire illegals are just one of the many and main reasons people come here illegally.

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......how about we try those first.....before we start imprisoning US Employers.

Most businesses are not dishonest,so therefore the only ones who would be affected are the dishonest ones who hire illegals.

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Well except for any business that unknowingly and mistakenly hires an illegal.......screw them!
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Badmutha said:

So now the over burdened US Employers and Business owners have a new role to add............Border Agents.


Yeah fining employers works all right.......except on the Illegal Drug Dealers, Illegal Gang Members, Murderers, and Rapists.......they will remain untouched by this measure.

You want to fine employers....so be it. Then fine the landlords, the grocer, the utility companies, the mortgage companies, ect. as well.

.....in a country so quick to point the finger at business.....while they turn a blind eye to all the sanctuary city policies, the limp wristed border enforcement, and lack of punishment for THE ACTUAL CRIMINALS.

God Help Us.......before we chase every business out of this country.......
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.
.

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They don't have to be border agents. All they have to do is obey the law..... Or go to jail.

Badmutha said:

Doing the job the Government and the Border guards just wont do--The US Employer......

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You are saying that it is only the government's job to verify if employees are who they say they and credentials are when they apply for a job? By your logic since investigation is the police's or private investigator's job then employers should not verify the applicant's identity and credentials. What you are trying to do is give scumbags a free pass by making it easy for them to turn a blind eye.

Does fining employers disuade the Illegal Drug Dealers, Illegal Gang Members, Illegal Murderers, Illegal Rapists that have invaded this country?

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Many of these illegals were children when their parents brought them over here and many of them do have day jobs so yes cracking down on the scum who hire illegals will have an effect. Plus there is the fact that most of the 12-20 million illegals in this country are not murderers, drug dealers, gang bangers and other similar scum. You are deflecting in an attempt to defend the scum who hire illegals.

Hell yeah......the ma and pop store that mistakenly hires an illegal should be shut down! That will teach those Illegals!

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If that mom and pop store verify the I-9 form, the SS card, ID, birth certificate and so on then that Mom and pop store's ass will be protected because they did everything they could to verify that they were not hiring any illegals.

Well considering all the arguments that have "Well illegals wouldnt come here if they didnt have (insert anything)"........

............why should it end with employment?

......how about we try those first.....before we start imprisoning US Employers.

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No one is saying it should end with employment except for pro-illegals trying to push for amnesty and shift blame away from the illegals. The reason we should start with scumbags who hire illegals because they are the main reason we have 12-20 million plus illegals in this country. It takes two to tango and both parties involved should be punished. Those who hire illegals are the pieces of **** who are screwing this country over by enticing people to come here illegally. They should get no sympathy what so ever.

Well except for any business that unknowingly and mistakenly hires an illegal.......screw them!
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If the mom and pop shops verify the I-9 forms, the driver's licenses, the SS cards and any other documents an applicant presents to them then their ass will be covered and therefore less likely to mistakenly hire an illegal. Cracking down on the scum who hire illegals is not the only solution to the problem of illegal immigration. We can employer local police law enforcement, make it practically impossible for someone to live here illegally, create laws that entice illegals to go back home. owever those are the subject of another thread. The subject of this thread is scumbags who hire illegals.

jamesrage said:

I disagree because it takes two to tango and a lot of these illegals are doing more than just working here illegally.

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Sure, but this isn't a one to one ratio of immorality. An employer who employs illegal immigrants isn't stealing bread to feed his starving family, he is systematically violating US labor law. An undocumented worker is often almost literally stealing bread to feed his starving family. The immorality of the employer is apparent, as is the fact that he deserved to be punished. The fact that an undocumented immigrant deserves to be punished is not apparent at all. So of the undocumented worker's conduct may be unlawful, but that does not mean that punishment or deportation is warranted. That's why we need to make an equitable path to citizenship is needed so badly.

Guy Incognito said:

Sure, but this isn't a one to one ratio of immorality.
An employer who employs illegal immigrants isn't stealing bread to feed his starving family, he is systematically violating US labor law.

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If you look at my posts you would know that I do not believe it is a one to one ratio of immorality. I have suggested many times that someone who employs an illegal should be subject to the same punishment that drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities. That means being subject to prison time, loss of property and assets, severely fined. While I have said that an illegal assuming that his or her only crime is illegal immigration and its the first offense should get six months in jail before being deported.

An undocumented worker is often almost literally stealing bread to feed his starving family.

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There are drug dealers who sell drugs to feed their family, thieves who steal and rob from others to feed their family. Many of these criminals do these things to put food on the table. It does not in any shape or form excuse their wrong doing.

The immorality of the employer is apparent, as is the fact that he deserved to be punished.The fact that an undocumented immigrant deserves to be punished is not apparent at all.

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I disagree. The illegal deserves to punished. His wrong doing is just as apparent just as much as the scumbag who hired him. First of all he trespassed into our country. Second of all he is most likely commuting ID fraud,so there is the strong chance he is ****ing over an American. Third, Every time he takes a job he screws an American out of a job and or decent wage. Fourth, just like the scumbag who hired him he makes it hard for the companies that are honest to stay in business. Fifth illegals drain state and local resources.

So of the undocumented worker's conduct may be unlawful, but that does not mean that punishment or deportation is warranted.

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Yes an illegal's conduct does warrant punishment and deportation.

That's why we need to make an equitable path to citizenship is needed so badly.

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No there is not a need for that. You don't reward thieves by letting them keep the stuff the stole and you most definitely do not reward trespassers by letting them stay on the property they trespassed on. It has been proven that when you grant amnesty you make the illegal immigration worse. This is how we got the 3 million illegals in 1986 to the 12-20 million illegals we have today.

jamesrage said:

There are drug dealers who sell drugs to feed their family, thieves who steal and rob from others to feed their family. Many of these criminals do these things to put food on the table. It does not in any shape or form excuse their wrong doing.

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Those people should be punished for selling drugs and stealing, not for crossing an imaginary line for the chance to do honest work. The vast undocumented workers are not criminals, and the few who are should not be a determining factor in our immigration policy. We have a very effective criminal law system to deal with undocumented workers that commit crimes. The undocumented workers who commit no crimes, and only perform honest work, should be encouraged to do so. That is just good economic sense.

Considering that these immigrants bring a net gain to our economy, and the few of them who do commit crimes are readily dealt with by our criminal system, there is no reason to make it harder for them to come here, stay here, and do honest work here. Frankly, I think it is pretty despicable to get in their way; it hurts us and them, and stinks of xenophobia.

Guy Incognito said:

Those people should be punished for selling drugs and stealing, not for crossing an imaginary line for the chance to do honest work.

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Honest work implies that they come here LEGALLY on a visa to work.They did not do that,so they are not doing honest work.

The vast undocumented workers are not criminals,and the few who are should not be a determining factor in our immigration policy. We have a very effective criminal law system to deal with undocumented workers that commit crimes.

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Illegals are criminals. They have committed a crime.
Illegal Immigration IS A CRIME!
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

* Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
* Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
* Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.

The undocumented workers who commit no crimes, and only perform honest work, should be encouraged to do so. That is just good economic sense.

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Illegal immigration is a crime.Therefore illegals are criminals. They fact they are here illegally and here illegally working means that they are not performing honest work.

Considering that these immigrants bring a net gain to our economy, and the few of them who do commit crimes are readily dealt with by our criminal system,

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If tax payers have to spend 4-5 billion on them how is it a gain?
http://www.debatepolitics.com/immig...gals-getting-state-services.html?daysprune=-1

there is no reason to make it harder for them to come here, stay here, and do honest work here.

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There are plenty of reasons. Besides that don't poor people in other countries other than besides those south of our border deserve just as much of a chance to come here?

Frankly, I think it is pretty despicable to get in their way

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There are legal routes for these people to come here here legally.

; it hurts us and them, and stinks of xenophobia.

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xenophobia? How so? I do not think any one has said immigration needs to be completely cut off and that we should deport people who have legally came here.


Seeing how you like to use the dishonest term of "undocumented workers" instead of "illegals", "illegal alien" or "illegal immigrant" what do you call people who come here illegally but do not work?

jamesrage said:

Seeing how you like to use the dishonest term of "undocumented workers" instead of "illegals", "illegal alien" or "illegal immigrant" what do you call people who come here illegally but do not work?

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The only dishonest term is the use of the adjective "illegal" as a noun. That is just an abuse of the English language, and it betrays a poor understand of grammar on your part that you insist on using it. "Undocumented worker" is a correct term for someone who has illicitly crossed the border in order to work.

Guy Incognito said:

The only dishonest term is the use of the adjective "illegal" as a noun. That is just an abuse of the English language, and it betrays a poor understand of grammar on your part that you insist on using it. "Undocumented worker" is a correct term for someone who has illicitly crossed the border in order to work.

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Illegal, or unlawful, is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law or, more generally, by rules specific to a particular situation

Illegal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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The terms "undocumented worker", "undocumented immigrant", and "undocumented alien" are often used to describe those who have broken the law of our land to enter and work in our country illegally. These are all misleading terms, deliberately used to "soften" the issue.

The term "undocumented" implies that foreign nationals have the unconditional right to violate America's borders and immigration laws.

An "immigrant" is an invited guest - a person who comes to a country where they are not a citizen in order to settle there. The term "immigrant" implies permanent, legal, residency. (Although because of amnesties and status adjustments, about 25% of currently legal immigrants first came here illegally).

The accurate description of a foreign national illegally residing in America is illegal alien. An illegal alien is a criminal subject to as much as six months in jail for first offense and subject to federal felony charges for subsequent entries after deportation.

Terminology - Illegal Aliens, Undocumented Workers, Illegal Immigrant, Anti-immigrant, Immigrant Rights, Reverse Racism, Diversity - CAIR - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform

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Sorry Guy, but you are incorrect. Next.


j-mac

j-mac said:

Sorry Guy, but you are incorrect. Next.

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It is you who is incorrect.

The word "illegal" is an adjective, not a noun. Use it as such.