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Thread: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

  1. #101
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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Have you tried accessing wikileaks archive? I couldn't do it. Have a go and tell me what you find.
    I have too. It's a total mishmash, tens of thousands of cables, and they aren't filed under the Dewey Decimal System. I can't find a thing. Besides, why the hell should I have to spend hours trying to find a cable that a newspaper ran an inflammatory article about. They should have either printed the damned cable with the article, or provided a direct link to it. Until someone does that, I'm calling BS on the whole thing.

    Edit: Now thanks to the Sgt. we now know that this process has been in effect for 20 years, and nothing has changed at all. Just another Wikileaks half-truth used by the UK's tabloid press to slam the USA and drive a bigger wedge of paranoia between our countries. Grrrrr....
    Last edited by DiAnna; 02-08-11 at 10:19 PM.

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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    What's that? You might want to wipe away your own koolaid mustache before accusing me. You also might want to read the quote a little more carefully.



    Since your Glenn Beck Decoder Ring TM didn't enable you to properly decipher that quote, let me explain it to you. The agreement was already in the original 1991 START Treaty. It was simply continued in the New START Treaty. So, if you want to bitch, then do so at Bush Sr, because it was his administration that negotiated the 1991 START Treaty. DO you understand now, or do you need sock puppets to better explain it to you? How does that koolaid taste?
    Here's the link to the 1991 START I treaty between theUNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS and the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

    Treaty Table of Contents


    No where, in that text, the amendments or the Annex's could I find your claim, that the United States agrees to notify Russia of anything to do with the United Kingdom. You specifically quoted and claim it calls out the United Kingdom ... If you continue to make that claim, please identify from the link above, the Article number and sub-part.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna
    Edit: Now thanks to the Sgt. we now know that this process has been in effect for 20 years, and nothing has changed at all. Just another Wikileaks half-truth used by the UK's tabloid press to slam the USA and drive a bigger wedge of paranoia between our countries. Grrrrr....
    Never take anyone's word without verifying it first. Just because someone on a forum makes a claim, go to the source material and verify it - and that includes claims I make as well.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    wait..
    so the treaty doesnt mention it at all?
    if there is no disclosure whatsoever, then where is the article's writer getting this info?

    it would seem as there is no verification of the story from anyone...

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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    wait..
    so the treaty doesnt mention it at all?
    if there is no disclosure whatsoever, then where is the article's writer getting this info?

    it would seem as there is no verification of the story from anyone...
    So let me clarify, Sgt. made the claim that the 1991 START treaty already identified full disclosure of SLBM's and ICBM's such as the Trident missiles which were sold to the United Kingdom and made a big stink about this being in place for 20 years. I'm saying, the 1991 START treaty has nothing in it that I can find to support that claim.

    I'm therefore asking anyone to please point it out, and I provided the link to the 1991 START treaty.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So let me clarify, Sgt. made the claim that the 1991 START treaty already identified full disclosure of SLBM's and ICBM's such as the Trident missiles which were sold to the United Kingdom and made a big stink about this being in place for 20 years. I'm saying, the 1991 START treaty has nothing in it that I can find to support that claim.

    I'm therefore asking anyone to please point it out, and I provided the link to the 1991 START treaty.
    i agree with youre comments.. it seems there isnt anything in the '91 treaty.. but then in contrast, there seems to be nothing to back up the Telegraph's claim either.
    so.. nobody has verification of their claims.


    this thread shows that it currently takes very little effort to fan the flames. the only verifiable fact is people are upset over a mere claim that has shown nothing to validate it at this time.

    even if someone now showed a paragraph from wiki, whos to say it wasnt planted by a vengeful wikileaks owner?
    and after all, why not? its his only means to fight the possibility of extradition by stirring sentiment of the brits.

    i mean really.. isnt it just too juicy?
    and is everything released on wikileaks to be now taken as fact?

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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    i agree with youre comments.. it seems there isnt anything in the '91 treaty.. but then in contrast, there seems to be nothing to back up the Telegraph's claim either.
    so.. nobody has verification of their claims.
    That's true. What I do know as a fact is:
    a.) Sgt Meowinstein parroted something foolish without checking it
    b.) There is no such agreement in the 1991 START treaty
    c.) The Telegraph has not directly identified where they got that cable from Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    this thread shows that it currently takes very little effort to fan the flames. the only verifiable fact is people are upset over a mere claim that has shown nothing to validate it at this time.
    The flames come from people who have an agenda. On this particular subject, I didn't immediately believe the U.S. sold anyone out and I'm still not sure what the Obama Administration agreed to.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    even if someone now showed a paragraph from wiki, whos to say it wasnt planted by a vengeful wikileaks owner?
    and after all, why not? its his only means to fight the possibility of extradition by stirring sentiment of the brits.

    i mean really.. isnt it just too juicy?
    and is everything released on wikileaks to be now taken as fact?
    You bring up a good point... I don't know how that information is being kept or how accurate it is. I just know there's a ton of information where Wikileaks is concerned and no one seems to be chomping at the bit to debunk it. That means our government and other governments are simply ignoring it like it doesn't exist. I get more information from their INACTION, in this case than anything they refute.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    yea its pretty peculiar its not really taking off in the media anywhere. the few links from forums etc that ive bothered to look at all go back the the telegraph which goes nowhere.

    so.. how could a rookie president get this info? the line of people from missile serial numbers and their current status, to any president should be long and a surely more than a single person is required to divvulge this information.

    BTW..how did this wiki guy get that information already? was this a part of the info that was downloaded?
    i mean wow.. that wouldve been an international treaty in progress.. and it was available for viewing by someone with relatively little clearance or oversight.

    im thinking the wrong questions are beng asked by the few that are asking.

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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    Finally, someone on another forum with crazy mad Wikileaks search skills located the actual cable, which the Telegraph neglected to include in its article.

    GENEVA: AGREED STATEMENTS MEETING - Telegraph

    Under Section 3, the relative part reads:

    The Russian side provided copies of agreed statements on the use of telemetric data and on the transfer of Trident II missiles to the United Kingdom. End summary.
    Here's the kicker. Section 15:

    15. (U) Documents exchanged: - Russia: -- Russian Proposal on Agreed Statement on the Movement of SLBM "Trident-II" Missiles, Transferred by the US to Equip the Navy of Great Britain, dated February 9, 2010; -- Russian Proposal on Agreed Statement on the Prohibition of the Production, Testing and Deployment of Systems for Rapid Reload of ICBM and SLBM Launchers, dated February 9, 2010; and -- Russian Proposal on Agreed Statement on the Use of Telemetric Information, dated February 5, 2010
    I'll confess that even reading it within the context of this entire agreement, I don't really understand what it all means. Still, I don't like it.

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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Finally, someone on another forum with crazy mad Wikileaks search skills located the actual cable, which the Telegraph neglected to include in its article.

    GENEVA: AGREED STATEMENTS MEETING - Telegraph

    Under Section 3, the relative part reads:



    Here's the kicker. Section 15:



    I'll confess that even reading it within the context of this entire agreement, I don't really understand what it all means. Still, I don't like it.

    so the russians sent the info to the wiki dude?

    though its definitely sounding more ominous, i cant tell by the section 15 statement what the flying H its means..
    im just not good at gobbledygook.. can someone break this down intelligently?

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    Re: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

    Well....at least Europe got the American President they wanted in 2008. "Change" seems much more like political naivete these days than a fullfillment of the impractical Leftist dream, doesn't it? Maybe the free world will get a leader in 2012 that lives in the same world we live in. People seem to willing to place their heads on the chopping block just to "prove" that our enemies are merely misunderstood and that we truly are a one globe community.

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