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Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

No? It's what Obama promised.

If you're just going to trot out stupid cliches instead of actually discussing the issue, I'm finished responding to you. Kthxbai.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Then all you have to do is move to a country where that is legal.

If the government instead raised taxes across the board, then offered a tax credit for those who had insurance, would you still think it was illegal? It would have exactly the same economic impact.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA don't seem to have incurred any legal problems as to their legitimacy.

The federal government has a right to tax for the public good. What the federal government does not have the right to do is force you, without a positive action on your part) to purchase something from a private company. There is a difference between the fed taxing for Medicare, and the fed forcing you to buy insurance coverage from a private company.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

There are now two US District Court decisions striking down Obamacare, and two upholding it. Time for certiorari.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

The federal government has a right to tax for the public good. What the federal government does not have the right to do is force you, without a positive action on your part) to purchase something from a private company. There is a difference between the fed taxing for Medicare, and the fed forcing you to buy insurance coverage from a private company.

What if instead they forced you to buy insurance coverage from the federal government? Would that placate you?
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

If you're just going to trot out stupid cliches instead of actually discussing the issue, I'm finished responding to you. Kthxbai.
Fine by me, but it is what Obama promised. If we liked our coverage, we could keep it. Of course the two words in politics that mean the least, "Obama said..." LOL
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

the judge ruled that an injunction is not necessary as the pulling of the mandate unprops the whole thing

he ruled the entire bill unconstitutional

he also decided against the expansion of medicaid, the mother of unfunded mandates (so called by phil bredesen, on behalf of a slew of dem gubs)

regardless of what proceeds in appeals, the mandate is in prodigious political peril in upper parliament

it was already looking at an uphill slog to survive, all 47 R's (who signed on to all out repeal this afternoon) will vote to kill it

and if senators like missouri's mccaskill are against it, loyal obamacare water carrier for 2 years, then the two nelsons and manchin and tester and conrad and lieberman and webb and bingaman and, truly, about a half dozen others are likely to go

that is, legalities aside, the politics of this are poison to the party in power proceeding

at the state level, where obamacare legislated large leeway for the commonwealths to craft and implement their own particular visions of the exchanges, we've already seen the determined dispositions of TWENTY SEVEN ag's...

can't you foresee what this means at the state level?

do you think all those republican governors and legislatures and INSURANCE COMMISIONERS are gonna inaugurate obamacare with eagerness?

especially after this?

obamacare is the epitome of pyrrhic triumph in our contemporary politics

all pain, no gain

it helped win my side the house (biggest swing since 1938), 21 state legs and 693 reps (most in history), 10 gubs, 6 senators...

hey, when we haul ms sebelius before energy and commerce and grill her on those 800 exemptions (why does everyone want out, why do you let them go, can everyone leave, what will you say to the next 1000 applicants...)

how's that gonna fly when exposed to open air?

the burdens on the bankrupt states, the half tril cuts to medicare, the collection of personal data, the hiring of extra irs agents?

obama is starting to see---he's STUCK

in his phony reaganite sotu, he's more NEGATIVE about the bill than he is positive:

Now, I’ve heard rumors that a few of you have some concerns about the new health care law. So let me be the first to say that anything can be improved. If you have ideas about how to improve this law by making care better or more affordable, I am eager to work with you. We can start right now by correcting a flaw in the legislation that has placed an unnecessary bookkeeping burden on small businesses.

Remarks of President Barack Obama in State of the Union Address -- As Prepared for Delivery | The White House

in his hour long address, he prioritized his prime piece BELOW race to the top, start, credit card reform

he actually dwelt longer and more lovingly on his student loan program which was actually passed as PART of obamacare, added late as a sweetener

the handwriting's on the wall---obamacare is coming apart

seeya in the courts, chums, in congress, in the capitols, in committee

we'll hold hearings on every clumsy clause

we'll disinfect with sunlight the mandate, the hit on the states, the exemptions, the cuts in funding simultaneous with this massive expansion of enrollment...

try to see moves ahead

bottom line---how do you control health care costs while massively expanding its enrollment?

stay up
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

What if instead they forced you to buy insurance coverage from the federal government? Would that placate you?

If the government setup a medicare/medicaid system for all, I wouldn't be happy with it. I think it would reslt in lower quality of care. Additionally, I think it would have zero chance of passing in the current congress. However, I don't believe that it would be unconstitutional.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

'seems to be legal because it has existed for x years' is a very poor argument. There's much better ways to argue the health care bill than this.

The only reason SS is still here is because its very popular, not because its constitutional.

Something is enacted, it exists for a long time, that is legal precedence, not popularity. Courts use precedence every day. Cases are won and lost on it. It is very important in our legal system, and a damn good argument.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Kandahar;1059256880]Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA don't seem to have incurred any legal problems as to their legitimacy.

Not everyone pays into those programs and the VA requires military service


The majority of the American people either approve of the law or wish it had gone farther.

You need to get out of the beltway more, that simply isn't true.


A bare-bones policy that I'm quite certain would try to screw me over if the need ever arose, yes.

Still don't seem to comprehend personal responsibility issues. The govt. screws you over everyday but it must feel so good you want to extend the effort.

As to your question: I don't have the exact statistics. Some are unable to afford it due to low incomes, some are unable to afford it due to pursuing higher education, and some are unable to afford it due to being too old or having a preexisting condition. And some are unable to afford it because our tax structure distorts the incentive for insurers to offer individual plans, as opposed to corporate plans (a problem which was not solved by the reform law, but should be).

Don't you think you should get the exact number before trying to force a program on the rest of us? Low income people qualify for Medicaid, some qualify for Medicare if they are old enough , some are illegal aliens that use the services and don't pay for it, some are offered healthcare with their company but CHOOSE not to participate, some are rich enough to fund their own healthcare costs.


We have by far the highest health care costs in the world, with no better results than many other countries.


So I am told, wonder why? Have you ever bothered to do the research to find out why our costs are so high? Don't you think you should? How much do govt. regulations add to costs? How about malpractice suits? How about our porous borders and illegals using the ER's? How about the inability to compete across state lines? How about FDA approval time for drugs and govt. approval for new medical procedures? Want me to go on or do you care? For you and many others it is all about access and really has nothing to do with costs as long as someone else is paying for it and therein lies the problem
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

bottom line---how do you control health care costs while massively expanding its enrollment?

Don't have time or the inclination to respond to all of your post, but the above is curious.

If I have a group of 100 people who want to buy health insurance, the cost per person will obviously be higher than what a group of 1,000 people would pay.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

If the government instead raised taxes across the board, then offered a tax credit for those who had insurance, would you still think it was illegal? It would have exactly the same economic impact.

Thats not what was done. I think a large part of the resentment against obamacare is the way it was forced on us against the will of the people. This is a representative republic, not a dictatorship.
And no, because, then it would not be a mandate to buy something you did not want. But again, thats not what was done, now is it?
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Except I'm talking about EVERYONE...and I'm talking about ACTUALLY not being able to afford it (as in premiums that are thousands and thousands of dollars per year). Not complaining that you can't afford it, then paying the bill. You can't just ban preexisting conditions and expect everything else to stay the same. Economics does not work like that.

Nothing proposed by Obama or the GOP will lower or keep insurance low. Obamacare is already the reason for increase in premiums
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

The way Pre-ex works is that if you are deemed to have a pre-existing condition, you are not going to be reimbursed for medical expenses related to that condition for the frst 2 years of the policy. 2 years is fairly common pre-ex exclusion, it can be slightly more or less. You can obtain treatment for other conditions, just not he condition that was pre-existing signing up for the coverage. After the two year period is up, you can obtain reimbursement for treatment related to the pre-ex condition.

The way HIPAA deals with it, is they give creditable coverage for moving between plans. For example, if you have a pre-ex condition and have an unboken chain of insurance, you can move between policies without restarting the pre-ex exclusion period.

It's certainly not as bad or scary as the porponents of this bill scared people into believing.

I know come April my 2 years is up. I then will be looking for insurance again because $800 a month is way to much. Thank you Obama for unaffordable insurance
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

If the government setup a medicare/medicaid system for all, I wouldn't be happy with it. I think it would reslt in lower quality of care. Additionally, I think it would have zero chance of passing in the current congress. However, I don't believe that it would be unconstitutional.

Low quality? You have no Idea. My son is on medicaid and it sucks. Because he is an adult medicaid does not cover dental
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Not everyone pays into those programs and the VA requires military service

Doesn't change the fact that the government can and has provided health care programs. They are entirely within the scope of the federal government's powers.

Conservative said:
You need to get out of the beltway more, that simply isn't true.

Most recent polls I've seen have concluded that most Americans either support the law, or oppose it on the grounds that it didn't go far enough. In any case, there certainly isn't the "overwhelming opposition" you claim. The numbers are fairly close.

Conservative said:
Still don't seem to comprehend personal responsibility issues. The govt. screws you over everyday but it must feel so good you want to extend the effort.

I'd love to have a government plan. The government does not have a financial incentive to screw me like a for-profit health insurer does.

Conservative said:
Don't you think you should get the exact number before trying to force a program on the rest of us? Low income people qualify for Medicaid, some qualify for Medicare if they are old enough , some are illegal aliens that use the services and don't pay for it, some are offered healthcare with their company but CHOOSE not to participate, some are rich enough to fund their own healthcare costs.

And some cannot get insurance because they have a preexisting condition. Or they're stuck in a job that they can't leave because they'd lose their health insurance. And Medicaid does not begin to cover the health care needs of low-income people.

Conservative said:
So I am told, wonder why? Have you ever bothered to do the research to find out why our costs are so high? Don't you think you should? How much do govt. regulations add to costs?

Considering just about every other developed country in the world has far MORE government regulation of health insurers than we do, and far lower costs than we do, I'd say that's highly unlikely.

Conservative said:
How about malpractice suits?

OK, maybe that adds a few percent to total health care costs.

Conservative said:
How about our porous borders and illegals using the ER's?

OK, that adds maybe a few more percent. Keep going. Our health care costs per capita are nearly 50% above the next-highest nations (Switzerland & France).

saupload_f1.JPG


Conservative said:
How about the inability to compete across state lines?

This is just a euphemism for less government regulation, which I addressed above.

Conservative said:
How about FDA approval time for drugs and govt. approval for new medical procedures?

How does that add to our health care costs? If anything, that's a DRAG on health care costs because it prevents people from getting new and expensive treatments.

Conservative said:
Want me to go on or do you care? For you and many others it is all about access and really has nothing to do with costs as long as someone else is paying for it and therein lies the problem

You just trotted out a list of things you don't like about health care costs, without even bothering to assess how they impact cost. :roll:
 
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Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

I know come April my 2 years is up. I then will be looking for insurance again because $800 a month is way to much. Thank you Obama for unaffordable insurance

Chances are it probably would have gone up, with or without the health care bill...

average-healthcare-premiums1.jpg
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Chances are it probably would have gone up, with or without the health care bill...

average-healthcare-premiums1.jpg

For 10 years I have been with several companies and always paid around $600 a month
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

For 10 years I have been with several companies and always paid around $600 a month
Well, and even if insurance premiums have been going up, this year the jump was far greater than years prior. Why can folks not see why that is?
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

For 10 years I have been with several companies and always paid around $600 a month

How about your deductable? ;) Come on be honest! :mrgreen:
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

For 10 years I have been with several companies and always paid around $600 a month

Holly cow!!! Why do you pay so much? What do you get for it? 5 or 6 $20 doctor's visits and a few pills?

Check out this site: Health Insurance - Find Affordable Health Insurance Plans and Buy Medical Coverage Online
It will give you quotes for insurance. You can get a plan for 1/4 of that, you just won't have the doctor's visit...but you'll be saving around $5,400 a year so I think you'll manage.
 
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