Page 59 of 125 FirstFirst ... 949575859606169109 ... LastLast
Results 581 to 590 of 1250

Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #581
    Professor
    other's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VA
    Last Seen
    01-22-14 @ 11:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As I understand exit polls, 33% persent thought the legislation went too far. 33% thought it didn't go far enough. And 33% thought it was just right. yes, that means 66% weren't happy with it. But that message is a tad more complicated than some present it. Most polls show people want the care in the bill, but have problem with the funding, which means there is a complete disconnect with the public. They can't have the things they want without a means of paying for it.
    It's pointless to consider the worth of any bill without taking the financial aspects into consideration, so while there may indeed be people who want the perceived benefits without having considered the funding, it will have an impact regardless. Those that look at the issue more completely can find plenty of reason to oppose the bill. Disconnects occur because of polls that present only a portion of the issue at hand -- such as the perceived benefits or the costs alone. Generally, I see more opposition to the bill today than support, and that's the bottom line...it will only get worse as more people begin to realizes the costs involved with the actual full implementation. Furthermore, there are already federal courts that have judged the legislation as unconstitutional -- while it will still go to the SCOTUS for a final decision -- it isn't helping supporters of the legislation that this is the case.
    Last edited by other; 02-08-11 at 08:37 PM.

  2. #582
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    So, according to you, the public is not concerned with pre-existing conditions, covering children or affordable drugs for seniors on Medicare? Yeah, I'm going to have to call a big BULL**** on that one. What a joke.
    someone's getting pissy

    LOL!

    no, silly, the pre-existings and portabilities and donut holes are not the parts of obamacare that occasioned the great revolt

    the half tril cuts to medicare while expanding it by millions, the 200B burden on already bankrupt states, the quarter tril doc fix, the three quarters of a tril in new taxes, the double counting of another quarter tril (according to cbo), the refusal of doctors to take on new medicare patients, the significant increases in er traffic and costs---all linked above---these are the poison pills in obamacare that has the public gagging

    oh, yes, and THE MANDATE, don't forget that

    cuz claire mccaskill and ben nelson and bill nelson and joe manchin and jim webb and joe lieberman and jon tester and kent conrad and a few others look like they're gonna join MITCH MCCONNELL in killing it

    no wonder you're so angry
    Last edited by The Prof; 02-08-11 at 09:08 PM.

  3. #583
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    It's pointless to consider the worth of any bill without taking the financial aspects into consideration, so while there may indeed be people who want the perceived benefits without having considered the funding, it will have an impact regardless. Those that look at the issue more completely can find plenty of reason to oppose the bill. Disconnects occur because of polls that present only a portion of the issue at hand -- such as the perceived benefits or the costs alone. Generally, I see more opposition to the bill today than support, and that's the bottom line...it will only get worse as more people begin to realizes the costs involved with the actual full implementation. Furthermore, there are already federal courts that have judged the legislation as unconstitutional -- while it will still go to the SCOTUS for a final decision -- it isn't helping supporters of the legislation that this is the case.
    That's why the bill needs to go further. While some 66% oppose the bill due to finnacing, another some 66% want the care it offers. Now, the challenge should be to fix finanacing and not gut the bill. The best option is a universal payer. The next best is the public option. The next best after that is an insurance mandate. And the worse option is going back to where we were, and in effect do nothing of significance.

    It neither helps or hurts supporters that it will go to the SCOTUS. I see nothing to that either way. Many things have to face a court challange, and that is our process. So, let it proceed. We'll see how it holds up.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #584
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537
    Last edited by The Prof; 02-08-11 at 10:01 PM.

  5. #585
    Professor
    other's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VA
    Last Seen
    01-22-14 @ 11:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's why the bill needs to go further. While some 66% oppose the bill due to finnacing, another some 66% want the care it offers. Now, the challenge should be to fix finanacing and not gut the bill. The best option is a universal payer. The next best is the public option. The next best after that is an insurance mandate. And the worse option is going back to where we were, and in effect do nothing of significance.
    You'd have to gut the bill to fix the financing.

    It neither helps or hurts supporters that it will go to the SCOTUS. I see nothing to that either way. Many things have to face a court challange, and that is our process. So, let it proceed. We'll see how it holds up.
    Pragmatically, you're right, but no matter what SCOTUS decides there will still be many who oppose it based on principle -- it is a huge expansion of federal power. Ie. just because something may be found to be constitutional (by any activist stretch) doesn't mean it should be done. This legislation has been vehemently opposed from the start, and was barely passed by a democratic house/senate/presidency, which also cost many of those democrats their jobs.

  6. #586
    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    07-22-17 @ 06:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    620

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    someone's getting pissy

    LOL!

    no, silly, the pre-existings and portabilities and donut holes are not the parts of obamacare that occasioned the great revolt

    the half tril cuts to medicare while expanding it by millions, the 200B burden on already bankrupt states, the quarter tril doc fix, the three quarters of a tril in new taxes, the double counting of another quarter tril (according to cbo), the refusal of doctors to take on new medicare patients, the significant increases in er traffic and costs---all linked above---these are the poison pills in obamacare that has the public gagging

    oh, yes, and THE MANDATE, don't forget that

    cuz claire mccaskill and ben nelson and bill nelson and joe manchin and jim webb and joe lieberman and jon tester and kent conrad and a few others look like they're gonna join MITCH MCCONNELL in killing it

    no wonder you're so angry
    Calm down, Gramps. I'm not angry. In response to my post, you implied that the public is only concerned with the mandate and other provisions, and not at all concerned with the provisions that are already in place. That's simply not true. In your assessment, you completely disregard those who are happy with at least certain provisions of the law, and assume that a repeal of the entire law would please a majority of the public. The facts don't support your claim. As Boo Radley already pointed out, a substantial percentage of the public doesn't think the law goes far enough. Which means that they are not only happy with the provisions that are currently in place, but they want the law to go even further. Add that to the percentage of the public that fully supports the law, and the percentage that supports full repeal is in the minority. So, you're right that there are provisions that are unpopular; but there are also provisions that are popular. It's not black and white.

    And as far as the mandate goes, the House and Senate can vote on it all they like; but the president has the veto pen. So.....whatever. Anyway, that one will be decided by the SCOTUS.
    Last edited by Sgt Meowenstein; 02-08-11 at 11:01 PM.


  7. #587
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    In response to my post, you implied that the public is only concerned with the mandate and other provisions
    i don't imply, i link, read em

    a substantial percentage of the public doesn't think the law goes far enough
    sure, that's why americans voted the greatest house turnover since 1938, the most state reps and leg's in history, 10 gubs, 6 senators...

    because voters want obamacare to go even farther

    there are provisions that are unpopular
    yup, trillions worth

    half a T cuts to medicare, a fifth of a T unfunded mandate on states, a quarter T doc fix, another quarter T double counted (according to cbo), three quarters of a T in new "revenues," (according to cbo), and more

    links provided above

    and the increased er traffic and costs, and the reluctance of doctors to treat medicare patients, and the 10 years of taxes vs 6 of benefits...

    And as far as the mandate goes, the House and Senate can vote on it all they like; but the president has the veto pen.
    no kidding

    and that's where it really does look like it's heading

    did you read the politico piece TODAY?

    A new Dem threat to health care law - Manu Raju - POLITICO.com

    even i was somewhat surprised (by the dem defections on spending, regs, the epa...)

    how's it gonna go down when the prez is forced to veto a harpoon aimed at his ahab-like obsession by his own senate mere months after the historic shellacking he received on tsunami tuesday

    that's political poison, plato

    ask mccaskill, nelson, nelson, webb, manchin, tester...

    meanwhile, the gubs are stonewalling---and being rewarded for it

    seeya at the polls, pal

    and in the courts, in the capitols, in congress, in committee...

    bring an adult
    Last edited by The Prof; 02-09-11 at 12:08 AM.

  8. #588
    Sleeper Agent
    iamitter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NY, NY
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 01:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    1,836

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    At the very least, everyone can see that this bill cannot stand without the mandate.
    If it falls, its finances do so as well, and there goes the bill. That's actually the argument the Dept. of Justice lawyers make in courts.

    I'm actually pretty ambivalent about it at this point.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  9. #589
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    You'd have to gut the bill to fix the financing.



    Pragmatically, you're right, but no matter what SCOTUS decides there will still be many who oppose it based on principle -- it is a huge expansion of federal power. Ie. just because something may be found to be constitutional (by any activist stretch) doesn't mean it should be done. This legislation has been vehemently opposed from the start, and was barely passed by a democratic house/senate/presidency, which also cost many of those democrats their jobs.
    I don't believe you have to go backwards to no reform to fix it. So, I don't believe you have to gut it.

    And there will always be some who will oppose anything. Some still oppose SS. But that opposition doesn't mean something shouldn't be done either. As for the opposition, yes, a small number, that 33% who think it goes to far, has opposed it. Some of them even for legitmate reasons (though misinformation has played a huge role here). But an overwhelming number want reform, and want much of what this bill offers. But misinformation and the disconnect concerning funding have hurt efforts to make a better bill. But that isn't the same as if people wanted no part part of it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #590
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,306

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Is it ironic, or just funny, that our 'Constitutional scholar' President has now had two different judges declare the 'mandate' portion of the healthcare law 'un-Constitutional'?
    I wonder how many of these you get to do before you go up for impeachment for no upholding your oath of office.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •