• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

CriticalThought said:
The individual mandate was the GOP's idea. If it is thrown out then the public option will be seen as the next viable choice. I don't think that is what most GOP people actually want.
Click to expand...

If you want the country torn apart then by all means pursue the public option. Scorched earth if you folks try that.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

apdst said:
Obama's people disagree? Well, hell! Let's rock on then!

Since ****ing when are, "Obama's people", the authorities on what's constitutional and what isn't? I mean, damn, they don't have the authority to make that call. :rofl
Click to expand...

<winds up Liberal parrot recording>

Barack Obama was a Constitutional scholar
<rawk!>
Barack Obama taught Constitutional law at Harvard
Barack Obama has surrounded himself with the tops in <rawk!> academia and the smartest people in the United States
Sonia Sotamayor had a long history as a judge and demonstrated how <rawk!> fair she can interpret the law and
<rawk! rawk!> Elena Kagan's nomination shows how the SCOTUS doesn't have to always be judges but could be <rawk!> activis... <rawk!>
I meant to say, values experiences outside the courtroom and emphasizes personal interaction. <rawk!>

Polly wants a cracker, or a tissue.

drool.jpg

Any parrot will do... this is just one.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Ockham said:
<winds up Liberal parrot recording>

Barack Obama was a Constitutional scholar
<rawk!>
Barack Obama taught Constitutional law at Harvard
Barack Obama has surrounded himself with the tops in <rawk!> academia and the smartest people in the United States
Sonia Sotamayor had a long history as a judge and demonstrated how <rawk!> fair she can interpret the law and
<rawk! rawk!> Elena Kagan's nomination shows how the SCOTUS doesn't have to always be judges but could be <rawk!> activis... <rawk!>
I meant to say, values experiences outside the courtroom and emphasizes personal interaction. <rawk!>

Polly wants a cracker thrill up his leg, or a tissue.

drool.jpg

Any parrot will do... this is just one.
Click to expand...

corrected...
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Conservative said:
Why do you think the Federal Tax payer should fund the health insurance for someone else?
Click to expand...

I guess all of those unpaid ER bills were actually free.

Conservative said:
You seem to not quite understand the role of the Federal govt. Did you ever take a civics or history class?
Click to expand...

You seem to think that only conservative ideology is taught in a civics class.

Conservative said:
Name for me one Federal Program for social programs that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do and solved a problem?
Click to expand...

I'm sure it will cost more than was estimated. As long as it continues to better the lives of Americans, I'm ok with that. If I have to pay higher taxes, fine. Don't get me wrong, I don't love this law. If I had my way, we'd have single payer. We should have at least had the public option - which was, by the way, supported by a majority of Americans.

Conservative said:
You claim that thousands of Americans are enjoying better health care when the bill hasn't even gone into effect. How can that be? The point is we don't need Obamacare to improve the healthcare system. Identify the costs, all of them, and that wasn't done.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do make that claim. And so do the people who have taken advantage of the provisions of the law that have gone into effect.
Tell them that their children can't stay on their insurance plan until the age of 26; that seniors can't enjoy more affordable drugs; that children can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Think they'll be happy? There's a lot more to the law. Those are just the parts that have already been implemented.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Ockham said:
Let's hope a REAL change to health care can begin - such as purchasing healthcare across state lines and tort reform. Both of which will do more for people than almost anything in the current abortion of a bill.
Click to expand...

We talked about tort reform on another thread. It would make a very small difference in health care costs, about 1% TO 2%. Most people don't realize this.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

People are forced to buy social security for themselves (and others), so why would being forced to buy health insurance be different?
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

apdst said:
Obama's people disagree? Well, hell! Let's rock on then!

Since ****ing when are, "Obama's people", the authorities on what's constitutional and what isn't? I mean, damn, they don't have the authority to make that call. :rofl
Click to expand...

Calm down, champ. I never said that Obama's people were the authority of anything constitutional. What I meant is that he had a smart people working with him. They're betting that the mandate is constitutional.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

CriticalThought said:
The individual mandate was the GOP's idea. If it is thrown out then the public option will be seen as the next viable choice. I don't think that is what most GOP people actually want.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I suppose we can worry about that in another 80 years or so when the Dems next hold the presidency and filibuster-proof majorities.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

tryreading said:
We talked about tort reform on another thread. It would make a very small difference in health care costs, about 1% TO 2%. Most people don't realize this.
Click to expand...

GOP-Proposed Tort Reform Would Reduce Health Care Costs, Analysts Say - FoxNews.com
But a liberal think tank found the some states have already tried such reforms and that expanding them nationally would reap massive savings.

"We found that roughly, between $92 to $207 billion dollars per year can be saved from reducing defensive medicine," David Kendall, a senior fellow with Third Way, told Fox News.
Click to expand...

Issa: Obama Must Push Tort Reform to Lower Health Costs : Roll Call
A 2008 study by PricewaterhouseCoopers found that defensive medicine is a top area of wasteful spending in health care, accounting for $210 billion annually.
Click to expand...

CBO Says Tort Reform Would Bring $54 Billion in Savings - washingtonpost.com
Congressional budget analysts said Friday that lawmakers could save as much as $54 billion over the next decade by imposing an array of new limits on medical malpractice lawsuits -- 10 times more than previously estimated.
Click to expand...

Tort reform is not the end all, be all of reducing health care costs in America. But it IS an important part.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

tryreading said:
People are forced to buy social security for themselves (and others), so why would being forced to buy health insurance be different?
Click to expand...
No, people don't buy social security for themselves. Bush tried to give people the option to do that, but we all know where that went.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Albert Di Salvo said:
If you want the country torn apart then by all means pursue the public option. Scorched earth if you folks try that.
Click to expand...
They don't care. That should be obvious from the last 2 years.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Whovian said:
GOP-Proposed Tort Reform Would Reduce Health Care Costs, Analysts Say - FoxNews.com


Issa: Obama Must Push Tort Reform to Lower Health Costs : Roll Call


CBO Says Tort Reform Would Bring $54 Billion in Savings - washingtonpost.com


Tort reform is not the end all, be all of reducing health care costs in America. But it IS an important part.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the numbers are all over the place with defensive medicine. Nobody really knows how much testing is defensive and how much is ordered as a part of thorough health care. I have seen other estimates with similar spreads in the numbers.

But regarding tort reform, $54 billion over ten years is nothing considering the total health care numbers, and will make no difference.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

God Bless America........

The court ruled in favor of freedom and against tyranny........hopefully the Supreme robes do the same.
.
.
.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Taylor said:
No, people don't buy social security for themselves. Bush tried to give people the option to do that, but we all know where that went.
Click to expand...

Sure they do. They pay into the fund for their own retirement, and the amount they collect from social security is based on credits from previous earnings.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Sgt Meowenstein;1059256730]I guess all of those unpaid ER bills were actually free.
Click to expand...

600,000 in my county alone was Illegal aliens. How are the costs in MA for universal healthcare? Nothing in this bill lowers costs, improves quality, or assures there are enough doctors. If your state wants to do it, then let the people decide but to have a program run by the Federal Govt. and forcing people to buy insurance is a violation of individual freedoms.


You seem to think that only conservative ideology is taught in a civics class.
Click to expand...

I didn't learn conservative ideology in civics class but did learn the role of the Federal Govt. and the three branches. I didn't see healthcare anywhere in the Constitution as a mandate.

I'm sure it will cost more than was estimated. As long as it continues to better the lives of Americans, I'm ok with that. If I have to pay higher taxes, fine. Don't get me wrong, I don't love this law. If I had my way, we'd have single payer. We should have at least had the public option - which was, by the way, supported by a majority of Americans.
Click to expand...

There you go again so much faith in the Federal Govt. that has given us a 14.1 trillion dollar debt. There is no evidence that this bill will make things better just your opinion. By the way Rasmussan says you are wrong, healthcare is not supported by the majority in this country nor is a single payer system.


Yes, I do make that claim. And so do the people who have taken advantage of the provisions of the law that have gone into effect.
Tell them that their children can't stay on their insurance plan until the age of 26; that seniors can't enjoy more affordable drugs; that children can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Think they'll be happy? There's a lot more to the law. Those are just the parts that have already been implemented.
Click to expand...

So we need Obamacare to implement what is in place right now? You think there are enough kids on their parents program to justify the costs? Affordable drugs came from the Bush Medicare program not Obamacare. Not sure where you are getting your information but you are out of your league here.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

tryreading said:
Sure they do. They pay into the fund for their own retirement, and the amount they collect from social security is based on credits from previous earnings.
Click to expand...

Except the first SS recipients didnt have to wait 6 decades to start collecting.....hence the ponzi scheme.
.
.
.
.
 
MaggieD said:
It ain't over 'til it's over.

SCOTUS will find it constitutional.
Click to expand...

5-4 decision against ObamaCare........

....scary to think the constitution is only one liberal justice away from the paper shredder......
.
.
.
.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

ptif219 said:
So how about a regulation that pre existing can not be used by insurance companies to raise premiums or deny coverage
Click to expand...

And how do you propose to implement that without an individual mandate? If sick people and healthy people both have access to the same coverage at the same price, the healthy people are more likely to wait until they get sick before they sign up for health insurance. In effect, this means that the health insurance pools at any given point in time will be dominated by the oldest and sickest people, thus driving up the premiums for everyone and encouraging even more young/healthy people to free ride. The end result will be premiums so expensive that no one can afford them, and the collapse of private health insurance.

The only way to prevent that from happening is to have some external force preventing healthy people from going without insurance...hence the individual mandate. I know of no way that makes economical sense to 1) end preexisting conditions, 2) have a private health insurance industry, and 3) not have an individual mandate. You can pick any two of the them, but you can't have all three.

That's why I think the Republicans are swimming in dangerous waters with their court challenges if they favor a free-market approach to health care. If ultimately the Supreme Court strikes down the individual mandate but not the rest of the bill (in other words, if the Supreme Court picks options 1 and 3 above) then we will cease to have option 2. The result would be a government takeover of the entire health insurance industry.
 
Last edited:
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Kandahar said:
And how do you propose to implement that without an individual mandate?
Click to expand...
Don't you get it? We don't want it implemented at all.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Conservative said:
Yep, and that is where it belongs to reign in the Congress that overstretched its authority. There is nothing in the Constitution that requires Americans to purchase individual responsibility items.

How will the repeal of this bill hurt private insurance?
Click to expand...

liberals often believe if something is "good" then it has to be constitutional
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

buck said:
That won't work as a business model. Insurance companies would end up bankrupt in quick order. The way to do it would probably be something similar to HIPAA for individual coverage. This would result in higher premiums, but so would Obamacare, regardless of their claim.
Click to expand...

Pre existing are not a reason to deny insurance. I know I have a rider on my policy because of pre-existing
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom