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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    as dishonest as going through threads repeatedly suggesting that Democrats support banning all guns.
    that's exactly true

    nra backed dems, by the way, took a serious shellacking on tsunami tuesday---

    stephanie herseth sandlin, tom perriello, betsy marky, harry teague, earl pomeroy, paul kanjorski, frank kratovil, john boccierri, rick boucher, glenn nye, zack space, travis childers, chet edwards, allen boyd...

    off the top of my head

    almost as bad as blue "pro lifers," suckerpunched by stupak

    but most direly decimated were dixiecrats

    in south carolina, georgia, florida, mississippi, alabama, louisiana, tennessee, kentucky, arkansas and texas there are today in the house 81 serving republicans and 27 dems, most of the latter in heavily african american districts

    today's dinosaurs---southern dems, pro life dems, pro gun dems

    there's just no space for them in the party of pelosi

    prosit, progressives

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    I said why argue the count or how much it weighs because in the end, they don't matter anyway.
    i'm afraid judge vinson's ruling matters

    look at what's going on around you

    Dems up for reelection under pressure to nix healthcare mandate - TheHill.com

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I'm totally willing to accept that it was initially a Republican idea... I just want to see someone other Meowmix over here show me a source. I'm not asking for a dissertation or thesis with footnotes -- I mean, if it's that hard to man up and produce it, the obvious answer is the whole claim is bull****.
    Republicans Hatched Idea for Obama's Health Insurance Mandate - FoxNews.com

    All right?

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    i'm afraid judge vinson's ruling matters

    look at what's going on around you

    Dems up for reelection under pressure to nix healthcare mandate - TheHill.com
    Maybe I should have been clearer:

    They don't matter for the ultimate outcome of whether the bill stays or goes.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    well, we know who opposes the mandate NOW

    it would include, apparently, claire mccaskill, ben nelson, bill nelson, jon tester, joe manchin, jiltin joe lieberman, combat boots webb

    seeya on the floor

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    iamitter;1059260843]1) I never mentioned the public option. I said this bill. The one that passed. It has essentially nothing in it that the republicans didn't support (at least the big ideas).
    This bill has too many regulations in it and is a job killer. It does nothing to improve quality or quantity and that is going to put more pressure on the govt to create the public option as more and more people aren't going to be able to get service. ER's are overcrowded now and in MA where Obamacare got its roots ER usage is up huge as are costs. This bill is the first step towards a public option that the people will end up demanding.

    2) I would cut the government to tiny size. Including completely eliminating Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and cutting the military to less than 20% of what it is today. Full liberal, my ass. I only put that I'm slightly liberal because I'd rather vote for someone who is completely socially and fiscally liberal than someone someone who is conservative on both ends. ie. Social matters are more important to me. I'd rather have a few of my friends being able to get married than keeping that 4% increase in my paycheck. Do you understand my views now? I already told you this before - don't judge me when you don't know what I stand for
    Ok, have no problem with cutting the size of govt. and have listed exactly what I would cut many times on various threads. Today we have a 3.8 trillion dollar govt that needs to be shredded to provide only the basics that our Founders envisioned, a small Central Govt. I would phase out SS, Medicare, and Medicaid however too much dependence has been created which is part of the reason I don't support Obamacare which will increase that dependence eventually.

    I will never support marriage between anyone other than a man and a woman. That said it is a state responsibility not a Federal Responsibility and if your state supports it, so be it, mine never will. My state supports civil unions as did my company. Better be careful what you are pushing because if you create enough of an issue then this will go on the ballot as a Constitutional Amendment and it will pass, Marriage is between a man and a woman.

    Thanks for your views, mine are mainly boiled down to two, a strong private sector growing economy and a strong national defense. Without both nothing else matters.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This bill has too many regulations in it and is a job killer. It does nothing to improve quality or quantity and that is going to put more pressure on the govt to create the public option as more and more people aren't going to be able to get service. ER's are overcrowded now and in MA where Obamacare got its roots ER usage is up huge as are costs. This bill is the first step towards a public option that the people will end up demanding.



    Ok, have no problem with cutting the size of govt. and have listed exactly what I would cut many times on various threads. Today we have a 3.8 trillion dollar govt that needs to be shredded to provide only the basics that our Founders envisioned, a small Central Govt. I would phase out SS, Medicare, and Medicaid however too much dependence has been created which is part of the reason I don't support Obamacare which will increase that dependence eventually.

    I will never support marriage between anyone other than a man and a woman. That said it is a state responsibility not a Federal Responsibility and if your state supports it, so be it, mine never will. My state supports civil unions as did my company. Better be careful what you are pushing because if you create enough of an issue then this will go on the ballot as a Constitutional Amendment and it will pass, Marriage is between a man and a woman.

    Thanks for your views, mine are mainly boiled down to two, a strong private sector growing economy and a strong national defense. Without both nothing else matters.
    I don't really support the premise behind the bill, but I realize that its impossible to force the private sector to accept people with preexisting conditions without increasing costs drastically for everyone else.

    Marriage thing, it became a federal issue after DOMA. GM might not pass as a ballot now, but it will eventually. Every generation is always more socially liberal than the previous ones. My state doesn't allow GM marriage despite the fact that over 50% of the people support it. This isn't the thread for this discussion, in any case.

    I always viewed natl. defense as hypocrisy, as most of it doesn't actually go to defending the people. We could easily survive on 1/4 of it without attacking other nations and spying on our own citizens.

    Just as an FYI, our founders never supported a 'strong national defense'. They'd be more akin to the six guys defense, with 2 guys on boats on each coast and one on the border between mexico and one on the border between canada. Is mexico attacking us today Jake? Nope, I'm heading home. Ok, have a good night. Boom, national defense budget cut 99.9%. I don't support this exactly, but have anarcho-capitalist friends who do.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    I don't really support the premise behind the bill, but I realize that its impossible to force the private sector to accept people with preexisting conditions without increasing costs drastically for everyone else.

    Marriage thing, it became a federal issue after DOMA. GM might not pass as a ballot now, but it will eventually. Every generation is always more socially liberal than the previous ones. My state doesn't allow GM marriage despite the fact that over 50% of the people support it. This isn't the thread for this discussion, in any case.
    Every generation gets less socially liberal as they age. Your assumption that each generation gets more socially liberal is not really supported because more and more socially liberal things happen and therefore opens people up to more state control in coming generations.

    What I'm saying here, is if I'm socially liberal and so and so has already been done, its very clear to all that I will support something more socially liberal than what is in place. Government control and the people that support is in an avalanche. In order to keep working for social liberal goals its only logical that you have to get more and more in the same direction.
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-02-11 at 08:44 PM.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    I don't really support the premise behind the bill, but I realize that its impossible to force the private sector to accept people with preexisting conditions without increasing costs drastically for everyone else.

    Marriage thing, it became a federal issue after DOMA. GM might not pass as a ballot now, but it will eventually. Every generation is always more socially liberal than the previous ones. My state doesn't allow GM marriage despite the fact that over 50% of the people support it. This isn't the thread for this discussion, in any case.

    I always viewed natl. defense as hypocrisy, as most of it doesn't actually go to defending the people. We could easily survive on 1/4 of it without attacking other nations and spying on our own citizens.

    Just as an FYI, our founders never supported a 'strong national defense'. They'd be more akin to the six guys defense, with 2 guys on boats on each coast and one on the border between mexico and one on the border between canada. Is mexico attacking us today Jake? Nope, I'm heading home. Ok, have a good night. Boom, national defense budget cut 99.9%. I don't support this exactly, but have anarcho-capitalist friends who do.
    Ok, have a good one, thanks for the civil discussion

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Beautiful. This at least provides a starting point - now I can go back and look at alternatives to Hillary Care and what arguments Republicans gave at that time. And for the record: The Mandate was a Republican idea.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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