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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #321
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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I'd like something that isn't your opinion or claims. Like a bill # which Republicans provided as a mandate to this healthcare bill, like an interview with the majority or minority Republican leader saying that the mandate is needed. That is evidence ... your continuing to make a claim with nothing supporting it is called: an unsupported opinion.
    Seriously? I posted multiple quotes - some from REPUBLICANS - backing up the FACT that the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. How can you continue to claim otherwise when you've been shown over and over and over that you are flat out WRONG. Jesus Christ, I've seen Tyrannosaurus Rexs with thinner skulls.


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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    i don't offer my opinions, sir, because i respect that to others they are of little value

    instead, i link

    the public option is complete non starter in our contemporary political landscape

    it's more than 20 votes short in upper parliament, according to the hill, according to cnn, according to tpm, according to the still sitting budget chair...

    stay up
    Good for you. You're a big boy. Would you like a gold star or a cookie?


  3. #323
    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Unacceptable to whom? You would implement Obamacare to cover 15 million Americans who cannot afford healthcare instead of letting the states and local communities handle their own problems? That is very expensive and naive on your part with someone else's money.
    Great. That's your opinion. Your opinion isn't fact. You seem to have trouble separating the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The commerce clause has been abused many times over the years but healthcare isn't a commerce item. You cannot force people to pay for inactivity.
    Until the SCOTUS says otherwise, the mandate is in place. You can call it unconstitutional all you like, but that doesn't make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is what liberals always do, run when challenged and ignore anything that refutes your opinions. The brainwashing is incredible on the part of the left. Why do you continue to buy the lies?
    Wow, what a ****ing joke. I have repeatedly stated my position on this subject. You have repeatedly stated yours. You act like you've given me stone cold facts. You haven't. You have given me a typical conservative take on things. I'm not sure if you're aware of this; but political ideals aren't facts. So if I choose not to buy into your conservative argument, that doesn't mean that I have been bested or that I'm running away. It simply means that I don't agree with you. And I'm not going to post the same argument over and over.

    I'm sure you must be very proud of yourself. Don't be. The only thing you've proven is that you are a partisan right-winger. I have news for you: your opinion is not the only one out there.
    Last edited by Sgt Meowenstein; 02-02-11 at 05:05 PM.


  4. #324
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    even the casual consitutionalist recognizes that in the world of us districts two to two is no tie

    read why



    Opinion: Obamacare Is in Critical Condition With the Courts
    The first word in your link makes it arbitrary.

    Even if all the appellate courts declare it unconstitutional, one or the other side will appeal until it gets to the SCOTUS and they have the final say, regardless of what previous decisions have been. There's been multiple cases where the SCOTUS has a different ruling than every court who ruled before them.

    Why argue the count? The SCOTUS has the final say. It's not like they're going to make their decision by tallying up what judges before them have said.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I don't know the whole history behind the individual mandate; but I do know that it was a Republican idea. Whether or not it was supported by a majority of Republicans is irrelevant. I realize that plenty of conservatives opposed it for whatever reason, but that doesn't change the fact that it was part of the official Republican alternative to "HillaryCare". Many Republicans played a role in the planning. Some, like one of the architects of the individual mandate, are scratching their heads at the GOP's new opposition to it.
    Its fun watching someone bitch about people not owning up to facts, and then watching them spit out pure falsehoods while also showing they don't bother to research their own facts.

    First, there was no real official "republican" health care bill. There was one penned by oft criticized former Republican Lincoln Chafee that did get a significant amount of support for a short time as a possible "compromise" bill, one such compromise being the individual mandate. However within a few months the mandate, and the bill, was roundly criticized and rejected by a majority of Republicans including those previously supporting it, the AMA, and the CBO. You also had the Cooper-Grady health care proposal out there as a possible Republican backed proposal along with the Rowland/Bilirakis one and not that long after the Packwood-Dole which was just as largely supported by Republicans as the Chafee plan and it rejected the idea of an individual mandate. So stating it was some kind of "Official" uniformed Republican preference is an absolute absurdity and highlights the hypocrisy of you complaining about others being honest when you spew such rhetoric yourself. Taking ONE republican backed plan during a time when they were completely out of control of the government and had to put forth compromised bills that gave ground to the other side in hopes of having any shot of legitimately potentially getting something passed as the "OFFICIAL" stance of "REPUBLIACNS" while ignoring other competing bills and wide scale rejection of said bill within a few months time is ridiculously disingenuous. At best you could say it was the stance of a majority of Senate Republicans, and that's about as far as you can get.

    Secondly, attempting to attribute individuals within a parties ideas as some sort of party wide stance is ridiculous. Shall I find a singular Democrat suggesting pro-life and suggest then that pro-life is the Democratic Parties stance? Shall I find a singular bill penned by a Democrat pushing for the banning of all handguns as proof that it is the Democratic Parties idea of gun control? Shall we ignore that one of Romeny's largest problems during the primary was his actions surrounding health care in Massachusetts and he's rounded stated that such a thing was the right choice based on his constituents desires at a state level but not something he'd suggest for the federal? Your logic has so many holes in it and your hypocrisy is so transparent that your post might as well best be described as a pane of glass mimicing swiss cheese.

    Thirdly, the idea of an individual mandate as the only method of allowing the government for force insurance companies to stop denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions is a legitimate one. It also just happens to be an unconstitutional one. Thus the problem. Its the only thing that even gets close to making the notion the Democrats are pushing "doable", and even that is a stretch, and yet to do so would be to act in a way that is unconstitutional...which is what makes the entire thing problematic to begin with and something the government shouldn't be doing due to the damage it will cause.

    I don't deny that at some point some republicans had the ideas about the individual mandate. However the constistant labeling it as a "Republican Idea" as if that gives it credance, makes it some "official stance", or suggest that conservatives by and large are automatically hypocritical for disagreeing with it as if its some kind of unconditional truth of conservatism...as your use of the "republican idea" meme continually implies and suggests...is as dishonest as going through threads repeatedly suggesting that Democrats support banning all guns.

  6. #326
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Sgt Meowenstein;1059260495]Great. That's your opinion. Your opinion isn't fact. You seem to have trouble separating the two.
    Seems you have a problem understanding the role of the Federal govt. and the role of the state govt. Suggest a civics and history lesson

    Until the SCOTUS says otherwise, the mandate is in place. You can call it unconstitutional all you like, but that doesn't make it so.
    The Court ruled the bill unconstitutional so until either a stay or ruling is made the mandate no longer is legal. Violating the court will lead to contempt of court and is a violation of the law.


    Wow, you are a ****ing joke. I have repeatedly stated my position on this subject. You have repeatedly stated yours. You act like you've given me stone cold facts. You haven't. You have given me a typical conservative take on things. I'm not sure if you're aware of this; but political ideals aren't facts. So if I choose not to buy into your conservative argument, that doesn't mean that I have been bested or that I'm running away. It simply means that I don't agree with you. And I'm not going to post the same argument over and over.
    Your argument is opinion countered with fact. I gave you the link to the Census site that will show you the facts that you ignore about the 50 million uninsured. A little research will show what MA has done with Universal Healthcare and what Europe is doing now with Govt. healthcare. the question is why the continued defense in the face of actual results?

    I'm sure you must be very proud of yourself. Don't be. The only thing you've proven is that you are a partisan right-winger. I have news for you: your opinion is not the only one out there.
    Actually what I have shown that your partisan ideology trumps actual facts, logic, and common sense. Facts aren't partisan, they are reality. Opinions don't trump facts.

  7. #327
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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Would you like a gold star or a cookie?
    no thanks

    i'll derive satisfaction from the death of the public option, per kent conrad, ben nelson, joe lieberman, jim webb, max baucus...

  8. #328
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Even if all the appellate courts declare it unconstitutional, one or the other side will appeal until it gets to the SCOTUS and they have the final say
    no kidding, counselor

    meanwhile:

    Governor putting brakes on health overhaul in Fla. - Bloomberg

    obamacare is collapsing, piece by piece, in the courts, in the congress, in the capitols

  9. #329
    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Its fun watching someone bitch about people not owning up to facts, and then watching them spit out pure falsehoods while also showing they don't bother to research their own facts.

    First, there was no real official "republican" health care bill. There was one penned by oft criticized former Republican Lincoln Chafee that did get a significant amount of support for a short time as a possible "compromise" bill, one such compromise being the individual mandate. However within a few months the mandate, and the bill, was roundly criticized and rejected by a majority of Republicans including those previously supporting it, the AMA, and the CBO. You also had the Cooper-Grady health care proposal out there as a possible Republican backed proposal along with the Rowland/Bilirakis one and not that long after the Packwood-Dole which was just as largely supported by Republicans as the Chafee plan and it rejected the idea of an individual mandate. So stating it was some kind of "Official" uniformed Republican preference is an absolute absurdity and highlights the hypocrisy of you complaining about others being honest when you spew such rhetoric yourself. Taking ONE republican backed plan during a time when they were completely out of control of the government and had to put forth compromised bills that gave ground to the other side in hopes of having any shot of legitimately potentially getting something passed as the "OFFICIAL" stance of "REPUBLIACNS" while ignoring other competing bills and wide scale rejection of said bill within a few months time is ridiculously disingenuous. At best you could say it was the stance of a majority of Senate Republicans, and that's about as far as you can get.

    Secondly, attempting to attribute individuals within a parties ideas as some sort of party wide stance is ridiculous. Shall I find a singular Democrat suggesting pro-life and suggest then that pro-life is the Democratic Parties stance? Shall I find a singular bill penned by a Democrat pushing for the banning of all handguns as proof that it is the Democratic Parties idea of gun control? Shall we ignore that one of Romeny's largest problems during the primary was his actions surrounding health care in Massachusetts and he's rounded stated that such a thing was the right choice based on his constituents desires at a state level but not something he'd suggest for the federal? Your logic has so many holes in it and your hypocrisy is so transparent that your post might as well best be described as a pane of glass mimicing swiss cheese.

    Thirdly, the idea of an individual mandate as the only method of allowing the government for force insurance companies to stop denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions is a legitimate one. It also just happens to be an unconstitutional one. Thus the problem. Its the only thing that even gets close to making the notion the Democrats are pushing "doable", and even that is a stretch, and yet to do so would be to act in a way that is unconstitutional...which is what makes the entire thing problematic to begin with and something the government shouldn't be doing due to the damage it will cause.

    I don't deny that at some point some republicans had the ideas about the individual mandate. However the constistant labeling it as a "Republican Idea" as if that gives it credance, makes it some "official stance", or suggest that conservatives by and large are automatically hypocritical for disagreeing with it as if its some kind of unconditional truth of conservatism...as your use of the "republican idea" meme continually implies and suggests...is as dishonest as going through threads repeatedly suggesting that Democrats support banning all guns.
    And all of that doesn't change the fact that the mandate was a Republican idea...yaaawn...


  10. #330
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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And all of that doesn't change the fact that the mandate was a Republican idea...yaaawn...
    What are you trying to prove with this? Their minds aren't going to be changed. Republicans play the politics game so goddam well.
    The healthcare bill isn't anything on the scale of Medicare part D. This bill was all essentially a Republican idea to begin with. The difference is, they got to demonize the democrats for passing it.
    You can say thats them being assholes, but isn't that what politics in the end is? Knowing precisely how much of an asshole to be and not more.

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