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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #311
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I don't need to explain it to you. Constitutional scholars are betting that it's covered by the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. I'm no constitutional expert. BUt their argument makes sense to me. It will ultimately be decided by the SCOTUS.

    You can wait all you like on that other point. According to recent surveys, 50 million are uninsured. Prove them wrong. Even if it's more like 35 million, that's still a huge number of uninsured; and in the US, that's unacceptable.
    Which constitutional scholars are you speaking of?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    So, you're viewpoint matters, but mine is insignificant? Another typical con...yaaaawwn...Judging by your childish post, I can safely assume that you're just a 12 yr old smart ass. Good to know. Then I won't bother talking to you.
    Careful what you say there buddy.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Here, educate yourself, do we need Obamacare to handle those who truly cannot afford healthcare?

    Page 34 I believe will give you the numbers of non U.S. citizens as well as income levels of the uninsured. What gives the govt. the right to demand that U.S. citizens buy healthcare?

    http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p60-238.pdf
    Look, I don't agree with your position. How many times do I have to say it? Like I said, the exact number of uninsured is irrelevant. 20, 30, 50 million uninsured in the USA is unacceptable.

    According to the constitutional scholars who worked on this law, the commerce clause of the Constitution gives the gov't the right to require people to purchase health insurance. But ultimately, it will be decided by the SCOTUS. You won't change my mind on this subject.

    We disagree. I don't care. And I'm not wasting any more time saying the same thing again and again. It's pointless.


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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I don't know the whole history behind the individual mandate; but I do know that it was a Republican idea. Whether or not it was supported by a majority of Republicans is irrelevant. I realize that plenty of conservatives opposed it for whatever reason, but that doesn't change the fact that it was part of the official Republican alternative to "HillaryCare". Many Republicans played a role in the planning. Some, like one of the architects of the individual mandate, are scratching their heads at the GOP's new opposition to it.


    And as recently as 2006, Mitt Romney was in love with the idea.
    You do realize that the states can do an individual mandate if the citizens of the state approve it, don't you? That is what MA has done and yet the costs there continue to skyrocket destroying your argument.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Sgt Meowenstein;1059260318]Look, I don't agree with your position. How many times do I have to say it? Like I said, the exact number of uninsured is irrelevant. 20, 30, 50 million uninsured in the USA is unacceptable.
    Unacceptable to whom? You would implement Obamacare to cover 15 million Americans who cannot afford healthcare instead of letting the states and local communities handle their own problems? That is very expensive and naive on your part with someone else's money.

    According to the constitutional scholars who worked on this law, the commerce clause of the Constitution gives the gov't the right to require people to purchase health insurance. But ultimately, it will be decided by the SCOTUS. You won't change my mind on this subject.
    The commerce clause has been abused many times over the years but healthcare isn't a commerce item. You cannot force people to pay for inactivity.

    We disagree. I don't care. And I'm not wasting any more time saying the same thing again and again. It's pointless

    That is what liberals always do, run when challenged and ignore anything that refutes your opinions. The brainwashing is incredible on the part of the left. Why do you continue to buy the lies?

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Is it ironic, or just funny, that our 'Constitutional scholar' President has now had two different judges declare the 'mandate' portion of the healthcare law 'un-Constitutional'?

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    So, you're viewpoint matters, but mine is insignificant?
    i don't offer my opinions, sir, because i respect that to others they are of little value

    instead, i link

    the public option is complete non starter in our contemporary political landscape

    it's more than 20 votes short in upper parliament, according to the hill, according to cnn, according to tpm, according to the still sitting budget chair...

    stay up

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Is it ironic, or just funny, that our 'Constitutional scholar' President has now had two different judges declare the 'mandate' portion of the healthcare law 'Constitutional'?
    I changed a bit of your post. It's still factually correct. See how irrelevant that argument is?

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    even the casual consitutionalist recognizes that in the world of us districts two to two is no tie

    read why

    Obamacare supporters will say the judicial score is tied: Two federal courts have upheld Obamacare, and two have declared part of it constitutional. But two against two among federal district courts is not a tie. District judges, whether state or federal, are risk-averse when interpreting the law. District judges preside over trial courts. They normally apply established law to the facts before them. Deciding questions of law is primarily the work of appellate courts.

    Federal district judges, in particular, do not like being reversed by appellate judges. Frequent reversals are not good for one's ego or the reputation. Federal district judges naturally know, without consulting statistics, that very few federal statutes are declared unconstitutional. So given the probabilities, it's much safer and easier for a lone federal district judge to declare federal statutes constitutional. Just leave it to the panel of three appellate judges to consider more carefully whether a statute is unconstitutional. That's what appellate judges are paid to do.

    Because of this, the two decisions against Obamacare are much more significant than the two that upheld the legislation. For a judge to declare a federal statute unconstitutional, his or her opinion better be extremely well reasoned within existing case law. Predictably, many who disagree with the result in controversial cases will charge that the decision is a political one. Therefore, judicial opinions in highly scrutinized cases must necessarily go to great lengths to persuade readers that the decision is based on established constitutional principles. That usually requires quite a lengthy written opinion.

    Monday's decision was long (78 pages) and very carefully reasoned. It needed to be, given its widespread consequences. Usually, a decision against a federal statute by a district court will have an immediate effect only within the particular federal district. In this case, however, 26 states, some individuals and the National Federation of Independent Business were plaintiffs. All get the benefit of the declaratory judgment, even without an injunction. That means that until an appellate court decides otherwise, Obamacare is not applicable in 26 states, nor apparently to members of the NFIB in other states.
    Opinion: Obamacare Is in Critical Condition With the Courts

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I can post more evidence if you'd like; but since you keep ignoring the evidence that I've already provided, I think I'll pass on re-posting that evidence just to have you ignore it again. I'm not playing that game.
    I'd like something that isn't your opinion or claims. Like a bill # which Republicans provided as a mandate to this healthcare bill, like an interview with the majority or minority Republican leader saying that the mandate is needed. That is evidence ... your continuing to make a claim with nothing supporting it is called: an unsupported opinion.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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