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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #271
    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yeah see, I think I and others have questioned your claim that the mandate was a "Republican idea", but you're not coming back to back that up. So I'm going to chalk that up to a bald faced steaming pile of bupkus.
    You and others can question that claim all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's true. I don't understand how you couldn't know that at this point. It's common knowledge to those who have been paying attention to this issue.

    Try these on for size. The first one is from Fox News, so you can't accuse me of using a biased source.

    Republicans were for President Obama's requirement that Americans get health insurance before they were against it.
    The obligation in the new health care law is a Republican idea that's been around at least two decades. It was once trumpeted as an alternative to Bill and Hillary Clinton's failed health care overhaul in the 1990s. These days, Republicans call it government overreach.
    Mitt Romney, weighing another run for the Republican presidential nomination, signed such a requirement into law at the state level as Massachusetts governor in 2006. At the time, Romney defended it as "a personal responsibility principle" and Massachusetts' newest Republican senator, Scott Brown, backed it. Romney now says Obama's plan is a federal takeover that bears little resemblance to what he did as governor and should be repealed

    Read more: Republicans Hatched Idea for Obama's Health Insurance Mandate - FoxNews.com

    "The truth is this is a Republican idea," said Linda Quick, president of the South Florida Hospital and Healthcare Association. She said she first heard the concept of the "individual mandate" in a Miami speech in the early 1990s by Sen. John McCain, a conservative Republican from Arizona, to counter the "Hillarycare" the Clintons were proposing.

    McCain did not embrace the concept during his 2008 election campaign, but other leading Republicans did, including Tommy Thompson, secretary of Health and Human Services under President George W. Bush.

    Seeking to deradicalize the idea during a symposium in Orlando in September 2008, Thompson said, "Just like people are required to have car insurance, they could be required to have health insurance."

    Among the other Republicans who had embraced the idea was Mitt Romney, who as governor of Massachusetts crafted a huge reform by requiring almost all citizens to have coverage.

    "Some of my libertarian friends balk at what looks like an individual mandate," Romney wrote in The Wall Street Journal in 2006. "But remember, someone has to pay for the health care that must, by law, be provided: Either the individual pays or the taxpayers pay. A free ride on government is not libertarian."

    Romney was referring to the federal law that requires everyone to be treated in emergency rooms, regardless of their ability to pay.

    Read more: Health bill included big Republican idea: individual mandate | McClatchy
    Bupkus, eh?


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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    You don't understand the argument is do you. The argument is not about helping those in need. It's about Congress over stepping there power as defined in the Constitution ( You know that document that is the Supreme Law of the Land).
    So if I don't agree with your conservative take on the issue, then I just don't understand the argument? I understand your argument, I just don't agree (and it has nothing to do with my post). You can say that the mandate is unconstitutional all you like, but until the Supreme Court says so, it isn't.

    Now that I've cleared that up for you, let's get to the real issue with your post. I was responding to a poster who claimed that pre-existing conditions and other issues would not be covered by the HC law. As I pointed out, the law does cover those people. It's common sense. Anybody paying even a little attention knows that. Now, do you care to dispute that fact, or did you just want to throw out right-wing talking points?
    Last edited by Sgt Meowenstein; 02-02-11 at 11:00 AM.


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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    You and others can question that claim all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's true. I don't understand how you couldn't know that at this point. It's common knowledge to those who have been paying attention to this issue.

    Try these on for size. The first one is from Fox News, so you can't accuse me of using a biased source.






    Bupkus, eh?
    You seem to miss the point, there is a need for healthcare reform but not this kind of reform. Republicans made proposals on healthcare reform, i.e. tort reform, selling across state lines, identifying and reducing waste, fraud, and abuse not Federal Mandates and massive expansion of govt.

    As for Romney, this healthcare legislation in MA is going to be an albatross but apparently you have paid zero attention to this model for Obamacare. I suggest educating yourself. Costs continue to rise as access does not assure cheaper healthcare as people cannot get into seeing a doctor thus ER usage is way up. Is that really what you want to see?

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    You and others can question that claim all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's true. I don't understand how you couldn't know that at this point. It's common knowledge to those who have been paying attention to this issue.

    Try these on for size. The first one is from Fox News, so you can't accuse me of using a biased source.

    Bupkus, eh?
    Wait. She called John McCain a "conservative republican"? Doesn't that make pretty much everything else she said rather circumpsect?

    Regardless, even if it was a repulibcan idea, doesn't mean that it's automatically constitutional. So, the whole argument about who came up with the idea is rather unimportant.

    Unless your giving tacit agreement to the fact that only repulibcans care about the consitution. So, if it came from a republican, it must be constitutional...
    Last edited by buck; 02-02-11 at 11:10 AM.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Wait. She called John McCain a "conservative republican"? Doesn't that make pretty much everything else she said rather circumpsect?

    Regardless, even if it was a repulibcan idea, doesn't mean that it's automatically constitutional. So, the whole argument about who came up with the idea is rather unimportant.
    No matter how circumspect you think she is, it doesn't change the fact that the mandate was originally a Republican idea.

    Whether the mandate is constitutional is another argument and will be left to the SCOTUS to decide. I was simply pointing out to somebody who claimed otherwise that the mandate was in fact a Republican idea.
    Last edited by Sgt Meowenstein; 02-02-11 at 11:12 AM.


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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You seem to miss the point, there is a need for healthcare reform but not this kind of reform. Republicans made proposals on healthcare reform, i.e. tort reform, selling across state lines, identifying and reducing waste, fraud, and abuse not Federal Mandates and massive expansion of govt.

    As for Romney, this healthcare legislation in MA is going to be an albatross but apparently you have paid zero attention to this model for Obamacare. I suggest educating yourself. Costs continue to rise as access does not assure cheaper healthcare as people cannot get into seeing a doctor thus ER usage is way up. Is that really what you want to see?
    And you seemed to miss the part of my post where I was debunking someone else's claim that the mandate wasn't originally a Republican idea. I cited two articles that prove my point. Do you disagree that the mandate was a Republican idea?

    You also seem to think that your right-wing ideology is fact. It's not. You have an opinion. So do I. I suggest educating yourself on the difference between fact and opinion.


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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    So if I don't agree with your conservative take on the issue, then I just don't understand the argument? I understand your argument, I just don't agree (and it has nothing to do with my post). You can say that the mandate is unconstitutional all you like, but until the Supreme Court says so, it isn't.

    Now that I've cleared that up for you, let's get to the real issue with your post. I was responding to a poster who claimed that pre-existing conditions and other issues would not be covered by the HC law. As I pointed out, the law does cover those people. It's common sense. Anybody paying even a little attention knows that. Now, do you care to dispute that fact, or did you just want to throw out right-wing talking points?
    I'm pointing at the real agurment at hand is not that the law covers those people but does congress have the power to do so. So far the court rulings that the Federal Government is appealing to the Supreme Court says "No you don't have the power".

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    No matter how circumspect you think she is, it doesn't change the fact that the mandate was originally a Republican idea.
    and my point is that bringing up whose idea it was, is a rather dumb argument. Do you really expect someone that just discovered that it was a republican idea will all of a sudden change their opinion and say "oh, it's ok now. Do you think that is what the SC will base their decision on? It's an unconstituional power grab. Whether it originated with repulibcans or not, doesn't matter at all.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I don't agree that the public option is dead.
    it's a simple matter of counting

    the budget chair (conrad) declared repeated thru 2009 the po dead

    lieberman, ben nelson, dorgan, bayh, lincoln, pryor, warner and webb and others were on record opposed

    even the gatekeeper himself (baucus, senate finance) was never on board

    and since then, of course, there are eight net fewer dems

    the po is pleistocene, ie, a dinosaur

    party on

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And you seemed to miss the part of my post where I was debunking someone else's claim that the mandate wasn't originally a Republican idea. I cited two articles that prove my point. Do you disagree that the mandate was a Republican idea?

    You also seem to think that your right-wing ideology is fact. It's not. You have an opinion. So do I. I suggest educating yourself on the difference between fact and opinion.
    Interesting how you cherrypicked the articles as mandates have never been a Republican Idea unless the quotes represent ALL Republicans. We know that Romney supported the mandate and that is going to be an albatross as the results matter a lot more than the rhetoric.

    I asked you a question, why the passion for a public option? Where are there examples of the public option lowering costs, improving quality, and increasing the number of doctors? Is that what you really want in this country?

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