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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Centrist View Post
    Although I agree the government can't force anyone to purchase health insurance, this is one of the worst analogies I've probably ever seen on DP, and that's coming from someone who has been accused several times of giving bad analogies.
    the legal authority remains the same in both cases. if you can do one, you can do the other. See Kandahar's (honest, i have to give him) response.


    Kandahar:

    Last edited by cpwill; 02-01-11 at 06:15 PM.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Funny that it is the Republican idea that forces people to buy insurance is the biggest problem with the law.
    Ah. So can you expound on this please?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's because you're comparing the level of pre-reform government spending with the level of post-reform government spending. I'm talking about OVERALL health care spending. That's a better measure of the economic viability of the system, because even though your taxes would go up under a single-payer system or a public option, your own personal health care premiums would decline.

    The US spends 16% of its GDP on health care expenditures (including both public and private spending). The next-highest countries spend only 11%, and the OECD average is a mere 8%. Despite this, we don't seem to have any unambiguous advantage in the quality of our health care. That's why it strains credibility to claim that emulating some of the features of other countries' health care systems would increase our costs.
    You can't put millions more on and not have doctors to treat them. The costs will go up and the quality will go down

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You have such great belief that the Federal Govt. can lower costs and increase quality and quantity. Upon what do you base that belief? Interesting that single payer is being dismantled in Europe and such failure in reducing costs in MA. Interesting that you and the rest of the Obama supporters ignore that reality.

    Yeah...you stick with the Great Republican idea to require everyone to buy insurance.....That's the dumbest part of the whole program.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Yeah...you stick with the Great Republican idea to require everyone to buy insurance.....That's the dumbest part of the whole program.
    The Republicans allow for personal choice something that liberals only seem to support when it comes to murdering a baby. Right now there are millions and millions of people who can afford insurance but CHOOSE not to participate. What gives the govt. the right to force someone to purchase insurance? Republicans allow people to have that choice. You continue to be on the wrong side of just about every issue.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    more for the casual constitutionalists to chomp on:

    Obamacare supporters will say the judicial score is tied: Two federal courts have upheld Obamacare, and two have declared part of it constitutional. But two against two among federal district courts is not a tie. District judges, whether state or federal, are risk-averse when interpreting the law. District judges preside over trial courts. They normally apply established law to the facts before them. Deciding questions of law is primarily the work of appellate courts.

    Federal district judges, in particular, do not like being reversed by appellate judges. Frequent reversals are not good for one's ego or the reputation. Federal district judges naturally know, without consulting statistics, that very few federal statutes are declared unconstitutional. So given the probabilities, it's much safer and easier for a lone federal district judge to declare federal statutes constitutional. Just leave it to the panel of three appellate judges to consider more carefully whether a statute is unconstitutional. That's what appellate judges are paid to do.

    Because of this, the two decisions against Obamacare are much more significant than the two that upheld the legislation. For a judge to declare a federal statute unconstitutional, his or her opinion better be extremely well reasoned within existing case law. Predictably, many who disagree with the result in controversial cases will charge that the decision is a political one. Therefore, judicial opinions in highly scrutinized cases must necessarily go to great lengths to persuade readers that the decision is based on established constitutional principles. That usually requires quite a lengthy written opinion.

    Monday's decision was long (78 pages) and very carefully reasoned. It needed to be, given its widespread consequences. Usually, a decision against a federal statute by a district court will have an immediate effect only within the particular federal district. In this case, however, 26 states, some individuals and the National Federation of Independent Business were plaintiffs. All get the benefit of the declaratory judgment, even without an injunction. That means that until an appellate court decides otherwise, Obamacare is not applicable in 26 states, nor apparently to members of the NFIB in other states.
    Opinion: Obamacare Is in Critical Condition With the Courts

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    meanwhile, politics, as predicted, proceeds

    Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) introduced legislation Tuesday that would allow states to “opt out” of the law’s requirement that individuals have to buy insurance, that large companies have to provide insurance and that states need to expand their Medicaid program.

    Graham said his goal in introducing the legislation is to take down the entire health reform law. “If you take half the states out of the individual mandate, this [health reform] bill falls,” he said. “Quite frankly, that’s the goal.” He suggested that he would try to force a vote on the bill every time they “vote on naming a post office.”

    Barrasso and Graham said the new legislation would force the health debate from Washington to the state level, where some governors or state leaders are nervous about the expensive expansion of the Medicaid program .

    “Instead of requiring states to follow Obamacare’s one-size-fits-all approach to health care policy, our bill allows states to decide what fits best for their citizens,” Barrasso said.
    Senate GOP aims for piecemeal health care reform repeal - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

    the party in power is prodigiously pinched

    seeya at the polls, progressives

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Make 'em vote, Harry! We gotta get you and your punks on record so we can destroy you in 2012......again.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The Republicans allow for personal choice something that liberals only seem to support when it comes to murdering a baby. Right now there are millions and millions of people who can afford insurance but CHOOSE not to participate. What gives the govt. the right to force someone to purchase insurance? Republicans allow people to have that choice. You continue to be on the wrong side of just about every issue.
    LOL.....what do you know about the plan? It was the Republican idea to require people to buy insurance......It was a Republican idea that was offered as a compromise to the public option. It was a bad Republican idea used to try to appease Republicans....so no...dude....I think it is you that is seemingly on the wrong side of pretty much every issue.
    Last edited by disneydude; 02-01-11 at 11:06 PM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL.....what do you know about the plan? It was the Republican idea to require people to buy insurance......It was a Republican idea that was offered as a compromise to the public option. It was a bad Republican idea used to try to appease Republicans....so no...dude....I think it is you that is seemingly on the wrong side of pretty much every issue.
    What Republicans voted for the healthcare plan?

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