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Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Sgt Meowenstein said:
Oh, I'm a liar now? So if Republicans had their way and the law was repealed, those provisions of the law would stay in place?......That's what I thought.
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If it's repealed you answered your own question. Some things in the bill such as pre-existing conditions are a good addition.

Sgt Meowenstein said:
Now that we've cleared that up, what are the Republican proposals that would replace those provisions?.......That's what I thought.
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2009

Republican Study Committee (RSC) - The Caucus of House Conservatives
http://johnshadegg.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=137323
http://kirk.house.gov/index.php?opt...rm-act&catid=40:2009-press-releases&Itemid=88
U.S. Congressman Sam Johnson : Serving the 3rd District of Texas
Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.3821 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.3887 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)



2010
http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Media/PDF/RepublicanAlternative3962_9.pdf
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Sgt Meowenstein said:
So, according to you, the public is not concerned with pre-existing conditions, covering children or affordable drugs for seniors on Medicare? Yeah, I'm going to have to call a big BULL**** on that one. What a joke.
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You're right. it is bull****.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Sgt Meowenstein said:
Oh, I'm a liar now? So if Republicans had their way and the law was repealed, those provisions of the law would stay in place?......That's what I thought. Now that we've cleared that up, what are the Republican proposals that would replace those provisions?.......That's what I thought.
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Yes, I believe that will be part of a new healthcare bill. Your partisanship ignores reality. Not sure what state you are in but how is your state going to fund the Medicaid mandate but my bet is you don't really care as you cannot think that far ahead.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

randel said:
awwww....how sweet...conservative has a friend
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Moderator's Warning:
A one-liner, with no substance other than to be inflammatory, may be construed as trolling. I advise caution.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

randel said:
awwww....how sweet...conservative has a friend
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At leat you finally posted something that made some sort of sense. Get back to calling people hypocrits for being forced to contribute to a system and expecting some form of benefit. That was much more fun to read.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Boo Radley said:
As I understand exit polls, 33% persent thought the legislation went too far. 33% thought it didn't go far enough. And 33% thought it was just right. yes, that means 66% weren't happy with it. But that message is a tad more complicated than some present it. Most polls show people want the care in the bill, but have problem with the funding, which means there is a complete disconnect with the public. They can't have the things they want without a means of paying for it.
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It's pointless to consider the worth of any bill without taking the financial aspects into consideration, so while there may indeed be people who want the perceived benefits without having considered the funding, it will have an impact regardless. Those that look at the issue more completely can find plenty of reason to oppose the bill. Disconnects occur because of polls that present only a portion of the issue at hand -- such as the perceived benefits or the costs alone. Generally, I see more opposition to the bill today than support, and that's the bottom line...it will only get worse as more people begin to realizes the costs involved with the actual full implementation. Furthermore, there are already federal courts that have judged the legislation as unconstitutional -- while it will still go to the SCOTUS for a final decision -- it isn't helping supporters of the legislation that this is the case.
 
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Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Sgt Meowenstein said:
So, according to you, the public is not concerned with pre-existing conditions, covering children or affordable drugs for seniors on Medicare? Yeah, I'm going to have to call a big BULL**** on that one. What a joke.
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someone's getting pissy

LOL!

no, silly, the pre-existings and portabilities and donut holes are not the parts of obamacare that occasioned the great revolt

the half tril cuts to medicare while expanding it by millions, the 200B burden on already bankrupt states, the quarter tril doc fix, the three quarters of a tril in new taxes, the double counting of another quarter tril (according to cbo), the refusal of doctors to take on new medicare patients, the significant increases in er traffic and costs---all linked above---these are the poison pills in obamacare that has the public gagging

oh, yes, and THE MANDATE, don't forget that

cuz claire mccaskill and ben nelson and bill nelson and joe manchin and jim webb and joe lieberman and jon tester and kent conrad and a few others look like they're gonna join MITCH MCCONNELL in killing it

no wonder you're so angry
 
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Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

other said:
It's pointless to consider the worth of any bill without taking the financial aspects into consideration, so while there may indeed be people who want the perceived benefits without having considered the funding, it will have an impact regardless. Those that look at the issue more completely can find plenty of reason to oppose the bill. Disconnects occur because of polls that present only a portion of the issue at hand -- such as the perceived benefits or the costs alone. Generally, I see more opposition to the bill today than support, and that's the bottom line...it will only get worse as more people begin to realizes the costs involved with the actual full implementation. Furthermore, there are already federal courts that have judged the legislation as unconstitutional -- while it will still go to the SCOTUS for a final decision -- it isn't helping supporters of the legislation that this is the case.
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That's why the bill needs to go further. While some 66% oppose the bill due to finnacing, another some 66% want the care it offers. Now, the challenge should be to fix finanacing and not gut the bill. The best option is a universal payer. The next best is the public option. The next best after that is an insurance mandate. And the worse option is going back to where we were, and in effect do nothing of significance.

It neither helps or hurts supporters that it will go to the SCOTUS. I see nothing to that either way. Many things have to face a court challange, and that is our process. So, let it proceed. We'll see how it holds up.
 
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Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Boo Radley said:
That's why the bill needs to go further. While some 66% oppose the bill due to finnacing, another some 66% want the care it offers. Now, the challenge should be to fix finanacing and not gut the bill. The best option is a universal payer. The next best is the public option. The next best after that is an insurance mandate. And the worse option is going back to where we were, and in effect do nothing of significance.
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You'd have to gut the bill to fix the financing.

It neither helps or hurts supporters that it will go to the SCOTUS. I see nothing to that either way. Many things have to face a court challange, and that is our process. So, let it proceed. We'll see how it holds up.
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Pragmatically, you're right, but no matter what SCOTUS decides there will still be many who oppose it based on principle -- it is a huge expansion of federal power. Ie. just because something may be found to be constitutional (by any activist stretch) doesn't mean it should be done. This legislation has been vehemently opposed from the start, and was barely passed by a democratic house/senate/presidency, which also cost many of those democrats their jobs.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

The Prof said:
someone's getting pissy

LOL!

no, silly, the pre-existings and portabilities and donut holes are not the parts of obamacare that occasioned the great revolt

the half tril cuts to medicare while expanding it by millions, the 200B burden on already bankrupt states, the quarter tril doc fix, the three quarters of a tril in new taxes, the double counting of another quarter tril (according to cbo), the refusal of doctors to take on new medicare patients, the significant increases in er traffic and costs---all linked above---these are the poison pills in obamacare that has the public gagging

oh, yes, and THE MANDATE, don't forget that

cuz claire mccaskill and ben nelson and bill nelson and joe manchin and jim webb and joe lieberman and jon tester and kent conrad and a few others look like they're gonna join MITCH MCCONNELL in killing it

no wonder you're so angry
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Calm down, Gramps. I'm not angry. In response to my post, you implied that the public is only concerned with the mandate and other provisions, and not at all concerned with the provisions that are already in place. That's simply not true. In your assessment, you completely disregard those who are happy with at least certain provisions of the law, and assume that a repeal of the entire law would please a majority of the public. The facts don't support your claim. As Boo Radley already pointed out, a substantial percentage of the public doesn't think the law goes far enough. Which means that they are not only happy with the provisions that are currently in place, but they want the law to go even further. Add that to the percentage of the public that fully supports the law, and the percentage that supports full repeal is in the minority. So, you're right that there are provisions that are unpopular; but there are also provisions that are popular. It's not black and white.

And as far as the mandate goes, the House and Senate can vote on it all they like; but the president has the veto pen. So.....whatever. Anyway, that one will be decided by the SCOTUS.
 
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Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Sgt Meowenstein said:
In response to my post, you implied that the public is only concerned with the mandate and other provisions
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i don't imply, i link, read em

a substantial percentage of the public doesn't think the law goes far enough
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sure, that's why americans voted the greatest house turnover since 1938, the most state reps and leg's in history, 10 gubs, 6 senators...

because voters want obamacare to go even farther

there are provisions that are unpopular
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yup, trillions worth

half a T cuts to medicare, a fifth of a T unfunded mandate on states, a quarter T doc fix, another quarter T double counted (according to cbo), three quarters of a T in new "revenues," (according to cbo), and more

links provided above

and the increased er traffic and costs, and the reluctance of doctors to treat medicare patients, and the 10 years of taxes vs 6 of benefits...

And as far as the mandate goes, the House and Senate can vote on it all they like; but the president has the veto pen.
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no kidding

and that's where it really does look like it's heading

did you read the politico piece TODAY?

A new Dem threat to health care law - Manu Raju - POLITICO.com

even i was somewhat surprised (by the dem defections on spending, regs, the epa...)

how's it gonna go down when the prez is forced to veto a harpoon aimed at his ahab-like obsession by his own senate mere months after the historic shellacking he received on tsunami tuesday

that's political poison, plato

ask mccaskill, nelson, nelson, webb, manchin, tester...

meanwhile, the gubs are stonewalling---and being rewarded for it

seeya at the polls, pal

and in the courts, in the capitols, in congress, in committee...

bring an adult
 
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Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

At the very least, everyone can see that this bill cannot stand without the mandate.
If it falls, its finances do so as well, and there goes the bill. That's actually the argument the Dept. of Justice lawyers make in courts.

I'm actually pretty ambivalent about it at this point.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

other said:
You'd have to gut the bill to fix the financing.



Pragmatically, you're right, but no matter what SCOTUS decides there will still be many who oppose it based on principle -- it is a huge expansion of federal power. Ie. just because something may be found to be constitutional (by any activist stretch) doesn't mean it should be done. This legislation has been vehemently opposed from the start, and was barely passed by a democratic house/senate/presidency, which also cost many of those democrats their jobs.
Click to expand...

I don't believe you have to go backwards to no reform to fix it. So, I don't believe you have to gut it.

And there will always be some who will oppose anything. Some still oppose SS. But that opposition doesn't mean something shouldn't be done either. As for the opposition, yes, a small number, that 33% who think it goes to far, has opposed it. Some of them even for legitmate reasons (though misinformation has played a huge role here). But an overwhelming number want reform, and want much of what this bill offers. But misinformation and the disconnect concerning funding have hurt efforts to make a better bill. But that isn't the same as if people wanted no part part of it.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Whovian said:
Is it ironic, or just funny, that our 'Constitutional scholar' President has now had two different judges declare the 'mandate' portion of the healthcare law 'un-Constitutional'?
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I wonder how many of these you get to do before you go up for impeachment for no upholding your oath of office.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Boo Radley said:
I don't believe you have to go backwards to no reform to fix it.
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you don't believe the house is required for the president to get his funding

LOL!
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Boo Radley said:
The measure is not likely to get past the Democratic-controlled Senate, which has already rejected a stand-alone effort to repeal the healthcare law.

House to vote next week to block health funds | Reuters
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Just more contrived political road blocks to keep the pot boiling. The Reps know it will not pass the Senate, and yet they continue to keep using these delay tactics. Do they have a plan or are they just spinning their wheels?

ricksfolly
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

ricksfolly said:
Just more contrived political road blocks to keep the pot boiling. The Reps know it will not pass the Senate, and yet they continue to keep using these delay tactics. Do they have a plan or are they just spinning their wheels?

ricksfolly
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Delay it may be, but the House has the power of funding or not. Granted, it's unknown how long they can delay the funding or if they bring the Government to a work stoppage over the issue. If funding cannot be agreed upon, the law stays in place but implementation of the law by the States then is delayed. Not sure other than the ability to delay - is the end game, unless new bills or amendments are considered.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

ricksfolly said:
Just more contrived political road blocks to keep the pot boiling. The Reps know it will not pass the Senate, and yet they continue to keep using these delay tactics. Do they have a plan or are they just spinning their wheels?

ricksfolly
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The plan is to be obstructionists. That is the plan.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

Ockham said:
Then that's a good plan.
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Some may think so. And it can be an effective tactic. But I would prefer they actually work to improve.
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

ricksfolly said:
Do they have a plan or are they just spinning their wheels?
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of course we do

we're gonna isolate the president from his own senate

we're gonna get the reprobate on record in stubborn support of THE MANDATE in direct contrapunction of the people's will as expressed unequivocally and unambiguously on tsunami tuesday

we're gonna take the senate

and we're isolating the idiot electorally

ie, OUT of the south, OUT of the rust belt, OUT of the midwest, OUT of the rocky mountain west...

VETO the bipartisan repeal of the mandate, mr prez, make our day

seeya at the polls, pals, as well as in the capitols, courts, congress and committees

bring the media

A new Dem threat to health care law - Manu Raju - POLITICO.com

Tougher road ahead for Senate Dems - Shira Toeplitz - POLITICO.com
 
Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

you really need to read, umm, THE NEWS

since you don't, your talking as much as you do is an active INSULT to those of us who DO our work

for example, TODAY:

Pretty much as expected by conservatives, Obamacare has remained unpopular with the public. It's under attack in the courts. And now, vulnerable Senate Democrats are running for the hills. ABC News reports:

"We're looking at everything humanly possible. I've always had a concern and a problem with the mandate, that we were forcing it, basically saying by the law of the land you have to buy the product," Sen. Joe Manchin, D-WV, told ABC News today. "But on the other hand, I know that's been the linchpin. I'm looking for flexibility any way I can." Manchin is one of the moderate Democrats trying to figure out how to repeal the individual mandate. While talks are still in the early stages, Manchin hopes the push will take shape sooner rather than later. Joining him in these efforts could be a handful of other Democrats who are also up for reelection in 2012: Nebraska's Ben Nelson, Missouri's Claire McCaskill, and Montana's Jon Tester.

You can understand why liberals might be starting to panic. So earnest Obamacare supporters are rushing in. [Journolist founder] Ezra Klein offers his contribution: "Replacing the individual mandate wouldn't be particularly hard. All we need is another policy that does the same thing -- specifically, discourages free-riders who don't want to buy insurance until after they get sick and thus leave the rest of us paying for them. The danger is not that the law does get changed, but that it doesn't. That the GOP won't let it thrive and the Democrats won't let it die and so it just limps along."

Democrats are running from Obamacare Their willingness to push for a major revision, one vehemently opposed by the White House, of the "historic legislation" is not a helpful sign for the saleability of the plan in the 2012 election. As for the politics, Ezra has missed a key stumbling block: House Republicans and more than 40 Senate Republicans will not vote for an individual mandate-lite, if you will. They want to repeal Obamacare outright or defund it. Remember, the Republicans are running and governing on repeal and replace. In other words, Obamacare can't be fixed in their eyes because the entire premise of the legislation and the cost it entails are unsustainable. And the president is opposed to it too. In other words, virtually everyone save the nervous Senate Democrats is opposed to the idea of fiddling with the individual mandate.

Eventually the choice for red-state Democrats will be: Defend Obamacare as is or vote to repeal it. In the realm of electoral politics this is a "heads I win, tails you lose" proposition for the Republicans.
Click to expand...

Right Turn - Obamacare support melting away

it looks like more than a half dozen dem senators are PART OF THE PLAN
 
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