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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #221
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    If you aren't miserable why are you trying to trust your vision of healthcare on everyone else since miserable are the people who cannot get service in those universal healthcare countries. Your failure to sell your position to your state says it all. If you cannot sell it in your state, why should the Federal Govt. implement it?
    If the private sector is all that and a bag of chips then why don't the UHC countries switch?

    Manufactured misery.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    If the private sector is all that and a bag of chips then why don't the UHC countries switch?

    Manufactured misery.
    Pay attention, they are trying to do that

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So you prefer the govt. doing it? What does a bureaucrat in D.C. know about the doctors in Illinois?
    About as much as an accountant at the home office of an insurance company. Only they won't deny coverage in the name of record profits.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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  4. #224
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Pay attention, they are trying to do that
    Sure they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  5. #225
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right, personal responsibility is a bitch? I was looking for a job when I found the one I had for 35 years. During those 35 years I became very marketable and I was paid well to stay. If I were forced to change jobs it first wouldn't take me two years to find another one and i would accept personal responsibility with regard to healthcare. Losing a job doesn't mean losing healthcare. COBRA exists.
    If I'm not mistaken, you're only eligible for COBRA if you are laid off...and even then your premiums increase drastically. I'm talking about people voluntarily switching jobs, in the "freedom to move within the private sector" sense that you described above. It's rare for someone to switch jobs due to their health care benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative
    See above. your goal of the govt. protecting you from poor personal choices is quite telling.
    So if someone gets leukemia and can therefore never switch health care plans for the rest of their life due to their preexisting condition, that's a "poor personal choice"? On whose part?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative
    Moved five times in my career, went where the job was. You seem to have the opinion that the business owes you a job and health insurance. Wrong, the business owes you an opportunity and nothing more
    I don't think the business owes me health insurance. I'd be thrilled if health benefits were taxed as regular income, to spur employers to get out of the business of providing their employees with health insurance altogether.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-01-11 at 02:08 PM.
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  6. #226
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Except this romanticized view of the private sector doesn't actually exist in health care spending. Typically you do NOT have the freedom to move from one private health care provider to another.
    See, I don't think that's the case. If a person or household is employed - they do have the freedom to move from one private health care provider to another if they so chose. That is not typical because many employers offer better rates due to a large pool of insured members which can negotiate better premiums through that employer. However, there is nothing preventing people from moving from one provider to another within their state. The inter-state purchase is another topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If you get insurance through your employer, you take whatever policy your employer tells you to take. Sure, you could switch employers, but that's enough of a hassle that it highly discourages mobility.
    There you go, it's not the cost necessarily, it's the "hassle" meaning people are too lazy to do it on their own?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Furthermore, many people will not switch jobs - even if they're stuck at a job they hate or suck at - because they don't want to be without health insurance for even a day.
    What do you mean by "many"? The scenario I think of is the typical Starbucks employee who's working there only for the benifits - is that what you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    But maybe you have more mobility if you don't get insurance through your employer, and just buy an individual plan, right? Wrong. Better hope you don't get sick, or you'll be wedded to that policy for the rest of your life. Any other individual plan will tell you to take a hike due to your preexisting condition, or just charge you so much that it's essentially a roundabout way of telling you to take a hike.
    The pre-existing condition clause in the Obamacare bill is a good one and something like it should be included in whatever takes the place of that bill. However, don't mistake a healthcare provider that now cannot deny you coverage for a preexisting condition means they cannot charge you 2 arms a leg and an eye for coverage. I don't know that 2,000 page monstrosity that well, but I don't think there was a ceiling on premium costs for those with preexisting conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This "freedom to move within the private sector" is a myth. Unless you're 25 and healthy, you have at most a few options when it comes to buying health insurance.
    I don't think market competition is a myth at all. I think you just want it to be a myth as it applies to this law for political reasons.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #227
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    About as much as an accountant at the home office of an insurance company. Only they won't deny coverage in the name of record profits.
    Aw, the demonization of profits, where do those profits go? Guess your paycheck just shows up from the pay fairy. The govt. mandate of someone to purchase insurance is unconstitutional.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Kandahar;1059258035]If I'm not mistaken, you're only eligible for COBRA if you are laid off...and even then your premiums increase drastically. I'm talking about people voluntarily switching jobs, in the "freedom to move within the private sector" sense that you described above. It's rare for someone to switch jobs due to their health care benefits.
    With personal choices comes responsibility and consequences, something missing in the liberal world. If someone chooses to leave their job for another that doesn't offer health insurance why is it the taxpayers responsibility to pay for that choice?


    So if someone gets leukemia and can therefore never switch health care plans for the rest of their life due to their preexisting condition, that's a "poor personal choice"? On whose part?
    You are going to find all kinds of exceptions to the rule. I have been in the same healthcare system for decades. I have never been dropped due to my wife having cancer. Life is about choice and consequences for making that choice. I employed 1200 employees when I worked, offered healthcare for all including part time employees. I paid 80% of the cost of that insurance and since a large majority were members of the invincible class, 50% signed up, the other 600 were classified as uninsured. Whose responsibility is it to pay for those 600 health insurance choice?


    I don't think the business owes me health insurance. I'd be thrilled if health benefits were taxed as regular income, to spur employers to get out of the business of providing their employees with health insurance altogether.

    Good, neither do I but glad I had that option and took it.

  9. #229
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    In addition to your points, if you switch employers and health insurance, you may run into pre-existin condition exclusions. Also, the private sector tells you which doctors you can go to.
    Not true. If you have health insurance and change employers, you are automatically eligible for coverage with no pre-existing condition exclusion.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    About as much as an accountant at the home office of an insurance company. Only they won't deny coverage in the name of record profits.
    Medicare is actually the number one denier of claims. Meaning they deny more claims then any other insurance company. You really don't think they have a budget and have to watch their expenses also?

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